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Old 27-07-2020, 10:52   #61
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Re: Trying NOT to insult seller

I don't think it was sold.....but I later heard there was a better offer...not much better...but better...
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Old 27-07-2020, 10:58   #62
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Re: Trying NOT to insult seller

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Originally Posted by reflectionsv37 View Post
Wait!! If you're interested in this boat the first thing you should do is hire a surveyor and have the boat thoroughly checked out by a professional. This can be an in the water survey and if the survey is acceptable, you can do a haul out and below the water check later. You don't need to make an offer to have the boat surveyed. If the seller won't agree to that, that should raise a red flag.



Us YOUR surveyor. Not one recommended by the seller or their broker. You want to be assured the surveyor is working for you, not the seller. Tell him the asking price and ask him to do a valuation as part of the survey. He should provide you with a detailed list of equipment, sails, ground tackle etc. It may cost you a couple hundred $$$ but will be worth every penny of the cost.



Now, with survey in hand, you have a starting place to negotiate the price. Keep in mind that the listed price is the asking price. Most sellers are going to have an asking price and a price they will accept. They know they aren't going to get their asking price so they always anticipate taking less. No one is going to be offended by an offer 10% less than the asking price. Most likely expect offers less than that.



It would have helped if you indicated where the boat is located. If it's in a country that is currently locked down due to the coronavirus, most are, you need to know when and if you might be able to enter that country. Here in SE Asia there is no country allowing entry and none have given any indication when that might eventually be allowed. I've seen well kept boats here asking $400k selling for less than $200k.



Lastly, be prepared to walk away. It's difficult when you "fall in love" with a boat. Unless money is meaningless to you, you have to feel good about the deal. I found a boat once that I really wanted, had it surveyed and the boat was in excellent condition. But the surveyor, with his very thick French accent told me, "You would be foolish to pay that much for this boat. He wants 20% more than the boat is worth. It is simply not worth that. You must walk away!" I walked away and a week later found the boat I'm cruising on now!



Good luck!


Problem with this scenario is thereís nothing stopping the owner from selling to another buyer while your paying for a surveyor.
Always have a contract on the boat before paying any out of pocket expenses.
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Old 27-07-2020, 11:19   #63
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Re: Trying NOT to insult seller

Thank you to all that replied. My 12.5% below did not insult the seller and was returned with "no thanks". From there the usual back and forth but in the end, the seller was firm on the price - and like i said in my original post - it was a very fair price.
To those concerned/think I'm nuts. My brother spent hours on the boat and sent me 1000's of pictures before I made an offer. I have contracted MY surveyor (recommended here on Cruiser's Forum) for a full professional once over. I am also fortunate enough to have another sailing family member, who owns and sails a blue water boat, do the sea trail in my absence (even if I was there I would have let him take the lead as I'm way greener than him.)
I can indeed back out of the deal if the boat has expensive (>$5000) issues but all I can do is hope that is not the case.
Buying a boat site unseen may be out of the question for some sure, but I am fairly confident that I've taken all the measures I can given the circumstances.
Now, lets all wear a mask and get the borders open!
Brad
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Old 27-07-2020, 12:05   #64
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Re: Trying NOT to insult seller

I have limited experience with buying boats, and none with selling. But what I did find with buying a boat is that a seller is emotional; I have run into
- a seller that was beyond the age to sail, with one foot in the grave, who was unwilling to part with his beloved (but now neglected) sailboat at any price. His wife wanted it gone, he would pretend to not hear you on the phone if you called and he'd hang up.
- a seller that replaced an engine and then decided that it improved the boats value by the cost of the replaced engine without depreciation. No amount of discussion could persuade him that if you have a $12,000 boat and you replace the engine 6 years ago, that you still have a $12,000 boat.
- A seller who was selling a boat with everything dismantled. In his eyes, it was in perfect condition just as soon as he finished all of the projects. I asked him if he was going to finish them before the sale... nope.


At any rate, my point is that sellers are emotional. Their boats are part of themselves and they do not look at them objectively. Their asking prices rarely reflect the actual value of the boat (unless they have guidance from a broker etc). And therefore, you should offer what you consider a fair price and make sure not to insult them by being unreasonable.
(I have a friend who hates low-ball offers and always prices his things aggressively for sale. When he receives a low-ball, he tacks on an amount to the price and makes that the new price for that particular buyer.
e.g. Him: For sale at $25k. Buyer: I'll give you $12k... cash. Him: Your new price is $26k. Buyer: Wait wait! I'll pay $25k. Him: Your price is $26k.
He has no problems discarding buyers like that because he'd rather not deal with that kind of person, and his pricing is aggressive so never has any trouble selling whatever it is he is unloading.

Anyway... my advice is to pretend you don't see their asking price. Put your own fair market value on the boat, and include all the things that you will upgrade, replace etc. and then figure out what you're willing to pay. Offer that amount and it won't be an insult.
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Old 27-07-2020, 12:08   #65
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Re: Trying NOT to insult seller

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Originally Posted by bclaypole View Post
Thank you to all that replied. My 12.5% below did not insult the seller and was returned with "no thanks". From there the usual back and forth but in the end, the seller was firm on the price - and like i said in my original post - it was a very fair price.
To those concerned/think I'm nuts. My brother spent hours on the boat and sent me 1000's of pictures before I made an offer. I have contracted MY surveyor (recommended here on Cruiser's Forum) for a full professional once over. I am also fortunate enough to have another sailing family member, who owns and sails a blue water boat, do the sea trail in my absence (even if I was there I would have let him take the lead as I'm way greener than him.)
I can indeed back out of the deal if the boat has expensive (>$5000) issues but all I can do is hope that is not the case.
Buying a boat site unseen may be out of the question for some sure, but I am fairly confident that I've taken all the measures I can given the circumstances.
Now, lets all wear a mask and get the borders open!
Brad
Congratulations to (almost) your new boat, hope everything's going well!
Now that the questions and biddings are over and you have nailed it down, would you like to elaborate on the boat you're about to buy? I'm sure I am not the only one who is more than curious...
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Old 27-07-2020, 12:15   #66
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Re: Trying NOT to insult seller

Get a friend to loosen em up with a low ball offer. Then submit your slightly higher low ball offer.
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Old 27-07-2020, 12:16   #67
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Re: Trying NOT to insult seller

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Originally Posted by JordanH View Post

Anyway... my advice is to pretend you don't see their asking price. Put your own fair market value on the boat, and include all the things that you will upgrade, replace etc. and then figure out what you're willing to pay. Offer that amount and it won't be an insult.
I think that's fair. I might add that a broker will be more rational to deal with.
I have not come across any boat that I would pay for the seller's emotional attachment. None that I can afford anyway, lol.
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Old 27-07-2020, 13:10   #68
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Re: Trying NOT to insult seller

We just bought a 54' vessel. It had been priced $120k over market value. It was the nicest we'd seen, but nothing justified the asking price. We made 3 offers over a period of a year... always met with "no thanks". In the end, the seller became motivated and sold to us for fair price. Pay what you believe it's worth. Ultimately that is what sets the market value.
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Old 27-07-2020, 13:13   #69
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Re: Trying NOT to insult seller

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Originally Posted by Rascally View Post
We just bought a 54' vessel. It had been priced $120k over market value. It was the nicest we'd seen, but nothing justified the asking price. We made 3 offers over a period of a year... always met with "no thanks". In the end, the seller became motivated and sold to us for fair price. Pay what you believe it's worth. Ultimately that is what sets the market value.
Yep.
An overpriced boat will just sit there collecting slip fees and diver cleaning fees.
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Old 27-07-2020, 13:51   #70
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Re: Trying NOT to insult seller

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Originally Posted by William K. View Post
I once bought a boat for $19000 the seller was asking $32500 for. Just saying, negotiate, negotiate, negotiate.
Maybe the seller only had $10k into it.

Years ago, a friend had an old pickup truck that was a bit beat up, but in good mechanical condition. He'd bought it from a friend for $250, used for a year, the put it in the paper for $250. I guess people thought a $250 truck must be a junker because he didn't get a single call all weekend (remember those days?). The next weekend he put in the paper for $1100 and sold it immediately for $1050.

Peter
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Old 27-07-2020, 13:59   #71
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Re: Trying NOT to insult seller

funny that you should say that....I have a friend in the furniture business...occasionally, he will have pieces he " marks down" so as to get rid of them, but nobody wants them..so now he jacks the price up and they sell like hot cakes...go figure...
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Old 27-07-2020, 14:00   #72
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Re: Trying NOT to insult seller

Quote:
Originally Posted by bclaypole View Post
Thank you to all that replied. My 12.5% below did not insult the seller and was returned with "no thanks". From there the usual back and forth but in the end, the seller was firm on the price - and like i said in my original post - it was a very fair price.
To those concerned/think I'm nuts. My brother spent hours on the boat and sent me 1000's of pictures before I made an offer. I have contracted MY surveyor (recommended here on Cruiser's Forum) for a full professional once over. I am also fortunate enough to have another sailing family member, who owns and sails a blue water boat, do the sea trail in my absence (even if I was there I would have let him take the lead as I'm way greener than him.)
I can indeed back out of the deal if the boat has expensive (>$5000) issues but all I can do is hope that is not the case.
Buying a boat site unseen may be out of the question for some sure, but I am fairly confident that I've taken all the measures I can given the circumstances.
Now, lets all wear a mask and get the borders open!
Brad
Thanks so much for the candid update. I've had my boat for 22 years and frankly, do not remember what I paid for it exactly. I do remember walking aboard and looking at my other half and saying - within earshot of the broker - "well, this boat is sold. Just have to figure out the price." The seller was fair, and we were fair (boat had a decent crop of below waterline blisters) and we both walked away happy with the transaction.

I wish you all the best and the rest of your transaction goes well. And I hope there will come a time where all the great memories aboard your boat crowd out any recollection of purchase price. Boats are lousy financial investments - the only time you really need a boat is when the one you are on is sinking and the one next to it isn't.

Peter
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Old 27-07-2020, 14:57   #73
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Re: Trying NOT to insult seller

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Originally Posted by mvweebles View Post
Maybe the seller only had $10k into it.

Years ago, a friend had an old pickup truck that was a bit beat up, but in good mechanical condition. He'd bought it from a friend for $250, used for a year, the put it in the paper for $250. I guess people thought a $250 truck must be a junker because he didn't get a single call all weekend (remember those days?). The next weekend he put in the paper for $1100 and sold it immediately for $1050.

Peter
You never know.
I bought 1956 Chevy truck in sound condition about 30 years ago for $700. Drove it for awhile for kicks and had a good time. (had a column shift)
I sold it for the same price to a farmer in the desert a few years later.
Now....you could not touch that thing for less than $30,000.
Nothing to do with cruising on the water but just sharing, lol.
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Old 27-07-2020, 16:05   #74
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Re: Trying NOT to insult seller

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Originally Posted by Group9 View Post
I've sold a lot of boats. Low balls don't bother me. I just say no thanks.

But, I understand why people do it. I have a really good friend, (who passed away a couple of years ago) who bought and sold boats for a living. And, I've seen him have a lot of "insulting" offers accepted.

I was with him one day, when he offered a doctor 50 per cent of what he was asking for his boat. The doctor huffed and puffed and said he was insulted, and my friend shrugged and said, "I'll pay you today. Cashier's check."

And, the doctor griped some more, and then said "Okay, I'll take it." I had to fight not to laugh. I couldn't do it. But, it didn't bother him a bit.
Exactly that! I've purchased most of my boats for about 50% of fair market, nada, kelly, buc etc.. It doesn't matter whether it's a 16' Hobie cat or 42' cutter. Some methods work better (cash) than others but you have to make your own deals or leave money on the table.
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Old 27-07-2020, 16:08   #75
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Re: Trying NOT to insult seller

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Exactly that! I've purchased most of my boats for about 50% of fair market, nada, kelly, buc etc.. It doesn't matter whether it's a 16' Hobie cat or 42' cutter. Some methods work better (cash) than others but you have to make your own deals or leave money on the table.
The seller may not be perfectly happy but life goes on.
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