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Old 21-07-2020, 07:37   #46
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Re: Trying NOT to insult seller

Good morning and welcome to the forums. a ton of good advice on here. My personal experience, at a much different price point was that I offered 25 percent less initially and then 30 percent less after the survey results, settling at 29% less after the negotiation. that said, I've spent that 29% back into the boat in modern upgrades. a reasonable person will not be offended by an offer that is respectful. if they are, do you want to spend any time with them at all? good luck and happy hunting.



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Originally Posted by bclaypole View Post
Hi, I new to the boat buying game, however, I have found one that I want. Because the boat is on the other side of the world from me but located in the same country as my brother - he was able to do an inspection and take pics and video of everything for me. I am satisfied to make an offer conditional on a proper professional survey.
The boat is priced very reasonably and comes with almost all the extras needed. From what I've read on this forum a normal broker listed boat, has an almost expected 10-20% discount offer as the norm (yes, I may be off on this).

My question is: Is offering a 10% discount off of purchase price ($400000 boat, $360000 offer conditional on survey but with an as-is condition on minor items found during the survey (up to $5000 repairs covered under as-is clause), insulting? Things over $5000 would require re-negotiation of offer.

Last thing I want is the seller to tell me where to go but I also would like the $40000 to buy the items that are missing.

Your opinions please.

Brad
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Old 21-07-2020, 07:40   #47
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Re: Trying NOT to insult seller

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Originally Posted by flyingfin View Post
In todays economy, there are few Buyers and lots of Sellers.
Really, that's interesting because in Europe boats are flying out the doors being sold in days for asking prices or very close.

Been trying to help a friend buy a 34-36ft boat and he keeps missing out on them because he won't commit and is just dilly dallies instead of going to view with evidence of the cash waiting for the right boat.

What has changed? well no exotic foreign holidays this year, so folk are buying motor homes (RVs) caravans and boats to get away. Second homes in seaside locations also being snapped up as folk hope to have a holiday but social distance themselves, rather than fly cattle class for hours to the sun with all that involves and the risk of catching something.

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Old 21-07-2020, 07:54   #48
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Re: Trying NOT to insult seller

smj - you raise a good point. I have always wanted to stay on friendly terms with the seller as his/her history and advice can be valuable. While every transaction completed is a "fair" value transaction (as both parties agreed) I wouldn't want the seller to feel he got "had".
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Old 21-07-2020, 08:17   #49
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Re: Trying NOT to insult seller

My first move would be to educate myself on the local market, then on the type your wanting to buy.
Our local market has taken off and clean boats are sold very quickly. It's not uncommon to have several purchasers wanting the same boat.
So if the local market is average then a reasonable offer is expected and there will be room for negotiations even after the survey.
If the local market is hot, if your twiddling your thumbs the boat will be purchased by someone else probably at asking price if its reasonable.
If the boat is really clean and well cared for and is reasonably priced and the ,local market is good, personally I'd be inclined to offer him near his asking and then if the survey brings some shortfalls to light have the seller look after the costs to make everything right.
Just remember no one buys a real clean well maintained boat for a song because they are as scarce as hens teeth.
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Old 27-07-2020, 07:58   #50
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Re: Trying NOT to insult seller

You are thinking of buying a $400,000 boat without actually seeing it yourself? ??
Take $5,000 and jump on a plane (if you can) and "kick the tires"... YOURSELF.
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Old 27-07-2020, 08:11   #51
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Re: Trying NOT to insult seller

Try to find out if the owner has financed the boat and what he still owes on the boat.
Also, factor in monthly dockage rates, insurance, etc, that the owner must pay every month the boat remains unsold.
Finally, the owner might be " upside down" ie, he still owes more than the boat is worth...
You need to know all these things if you plan on a " negotiating" or " low ball" plan...
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Old 27-07-2020, 08:12   #52
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Re: Trying NOT to insult seller

Learned this the hard way. I was finishing up the purchase of a Skye 51 footer, the kaufman ladd design, world famous, big sister of the CT-47, and the deck was really coming apart, potato chipping like crazy, and as I walked on the deck, I said to the owner, "Well the deck is not getting any better by itself"

End of deal. Do not insult the owners baby. I might as well have said "your daughter is ugly"

Much better way to lower the price. "I wish I could afford to offer you a better price for your vessel. I am just in love with this boat, and I would take very good care of her, but this is all the money that I can get together"

trust me grasshopper
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Old 27-07-2020, 08:13   #53
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Re: Trying NOT to insult seller

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Originally Posted by taxwizz View Post
You are thinking of buying a $400,000 boat without actually seeing it yourself? ??
Take $5,000 and jump on a plane (if you can) and "kick the tires"... YOURSELF.

I do agree w/looking at the boat oneself before making an offer. That would be reasonable to do in any other time, except for now. Obviously travel is difficult/restricted for many countries, then add in a 2 week quarantine. Sounds like a pain now/for the near future.
I believe the OP indicated his brother/relative looked at the boat already. That's actually a great head start for most to have someone living in that country/knowing the the lay of the land to organize things.
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Old 27-07-2020, 08:24   #54
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Talking Re: Trying NOT to insult seller

I once bought a boat for $19000 the seller was asking $32500 for. Just saying, negotiate, negotiate, negotiate.
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Old 27-07-2020, 08:57   #55
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Re: Trying NOT to insult seller

Wait!! If you're interested in this boat the first thing you should do is hire a surveyor and have the boat thoroughly checked out by a professional. This can be an in the water survey and if the survey is acceptable, you can do a haul out and below the water check later. You don't need to make an offer to have the boat surveyed. If the seller won't agree to that, that should raise a red flag.

Us YOUR surveyor. Not one recommended by the seller or their broker. You want to be assured the surveyor is working for you, not the seller. Tell him the asking price and ask him to do a valuation as part of the survey. He should provide you with a detailed list of equipment, sails, ground tackle etc. It may cost you a couple hundred $$$ but will be worth every penny of the cost.

Now, with survey in hand, you have a starting place to negotiate the price. Keep in mind that the listed price is the asking price. Most sellers are going to have an asking price and a price they will accept. They know they aren't going to get their asking price so they always anticipate taking less. No one is going to be offended by an offer 10% less than the asking price. Most likely expect offers less than that.

It would have helped if you indicated where the boat is located. If it's in a country that is currently locked down due to the coronavirus, most are, you need to know when and if you might be able to enter that country. Here in SE Asia there is no country allowing entry and none have given any indication when that might eventually be allowed. I've seen well kept boats here asking $400k selling for less than $200k.

Lastly, be prepared to walk away. It's difficult when you "fall in love" with a boat. Unless money is meaningless to you, you have to feel good about the deal. I found a boat once that I really wanted, had it surveyed and the boat was in excellent condition. But the surveyor, with his very thick French accent told me, "You would be foolish to pay that much for this boat. He wants 20% more than the boat is worth. It is simply not worth that. You must walk away!" I walked away and a week later found the boat I'm cruising on now!

Good luck!
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Old 27-07-2020, 09:01   #56
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Re: Trying NOT to insult seller

The comment about not calling the seller’s baby ugly is spot on. A reasonable low offer is not an insult to me - that’s negotiating - but I’m not going to sell my beloved boat to someone who may not love and care for her as much as I have. I have been fortunate financially in my life and don’t have to suffer jerks and fools (usually).

Maybe I’m not typical but I always have the broker find out what boat the buyer currently owns and their plans for the future. After I receive an offer, I try to have a phone call with them (the brokers hate this but I’m the one paying their commission). I have taken a lower offer because I felt someone would make a better owner. I don’t do this when selling a house or car - but boat owners tend to be interesting people.

I always try to stay in touch with the people who buy my boats. Some have become long term friends. I’m glad to help them out with the inevitable questions that arise and love to hear about the new adventures my boat is having. Whether it’s looking up the paint number for a topsides paint job 10 years ago or recommending a brand of teak treatment there’s ways a PO can help for many years.
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Old 27-07-2020, 09:26   #57
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Re: Trying NOT to insult seller

My approach is first to sit down and list what it is going to cost me to get the boat to what can be considered an acceptable condition for my needs. Add for contingencies of at least 25%. Then look at the used sales prices, assume 10 to 15% below listing for sold prices and make an offer on that basis, with supporting information how you got to the offer price. I pad the improvement cost a little since you will want to allow some negotiation room on any low offer and this is still really money you will have to pay out to get what you want. Has worked on every boat I have purchased and in some cases, I have bought scruffy but sound boats for 40% less than listing. Sellers nearly always are blind to the cost of repairs or work needed after neglect and brokers don't always help. Having said that, my experience with brokers on sales and also with sellers brokers when I am buying, has been extremely good.
If the seller is insulted, you can walk away, but you are really being rational and realistic with your offer which he/she will eventually realize if the boat is not selling.
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Old 27-07-2020, 10:07   #58
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Re: Trying NOT to insult seller

Some have said that if your offer does not insult the seller you are offering too much, lol.
Just offer what it is worth to YOU! The seller will deflate in a couple hours if he feels insulted. No harm no foul. Move on.
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Old 27-07-2020, 10:33   #59
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Re: Trying NOT to insult seller

it's a tricky subject....I have placed an "offer" on a boat before....what I thought was a reasonable offer....and never heard back anything...not a peep.....pure silence....not even a " thanks, but no thanks"...

I've also been caught up in broker wars....when you have a broker representing the seller, and a broker, representing you, the prospective buyer...tough to negotiate your way thru' that morass...brokers wheel and deal between themselves, not always to your best interest...
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Old 27-07-2020, 10:43   #60
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Re: Trying NOT to insult seller

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Originally Posted by MicHughV View Post
it's a tricky subject....I have placed an "offer" on a boat before....what I thought was a reasonable offer....and never heard back anything...not a peep.....pure silence....not even a " thanks, but no thanks"...
The boat was probably sold by the time you offered.
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