Selling the House

[Jolly Roger]

I agree with Gaylord’s analysis, (and many others as well), because we have the same conundrum, with four houses.
But we have a different outlook, with different questions, because the one thing nobody has mentioned is age.
When I was 36 we sold up, house and all, and with two small daughters lived aboard for six years—on a wing and a prayer. When we gave it up, (for various reasons), we sold our boat for what we paid for it, and I started another business in England. We then emigrated to the USA, where we have had a good life for thirty years.
So now you know my present age, but my outlook and the questions are different to what they were when I was 35: If we buy a boat, how much time do we have to livaboard and enjoy it? We must now buy health insurance, (a big cost), whereas I didn’t give a fig about that thirty years ago. Where will we live if/when we are forced to quit? Will we even be able to sell the boat, and will we have enough residual funds? (I don’t want to start working again at 70 something). Will our properties have appreciated or depreciated in this time?
So when we all expound our different theories and plans it might be worthwhile to add your age, because it has an important bearing on your dreams.

[Olorin]

Originally Posted by swanny

Hi, My husband and I are also in Ottawa. We have currently just signed the papers for our dream boat, planning to leave next Spring! Damn, one more winter in Ottawa...
We are planning to sell! I don't want the worries of a house when out of the country.

Good luck with the plans!

I bought the boat last May and I've just sold the house and almost everything else. (The Ottawa market now is at a peak.)

I guess I'm about a year ahead of you.

This is becoming a Zen experience for us.

[JiffyLube]

Originally Posted by Jolly Roger

I agree with Gaylord’s analysis, (and many others as well), because we have the same conundrum, with four houses.
But we have a different outlook, with different questions, because the one thing nobody has mentioned is age.
When I was 36 we sold up, house and all, and with two small daughters lived aboard for six years—on a wing and a prayer. When we gave it up, (for various reasons), we sold our boat for what we paid for it, and I started another business in England. We then emigrated to the USA, where we have had a good life for thirty years.
So now you know my present age, but my outlook and the questions are different to what they were when I was 35: If we buy a boat, how much time do we have to livaboard and enjoy it? We must now buy health insurance, (a big cost), whereas I didn’t give a fig about that thirty years ago. Where will we live if/when we are forced to quit? Will we even be able to sell the boat, and will we have enough residual funds? (I don’t want to start working again at 70 something). Will our properties have appreciated or depreciated in this time?
So when we all expound our different theories and plans it might be worthwhile to add your age, because it has an important bearing on your dreams.

Age does through a monkey wrench into the dream huh. Is there a point in time that a person should give up on a dream because of age (if still pretty much able bodied) or pursue the dream to the end? Is a dream just for younger people?

[Drew13440]

Now that I'm behind in my saving I've started thinking about our options to finance the boat. Maybe selling the house. We both have defined benefit pension plans. Though I'll be leaving early and deferring mine to avoid the penalties. My husband can retire in six years. And we have our RRSPs. So our cruising kitty is fine. It's the boat fund. Maybe I can make up for the lack of discipline this last year.
[QUOTE]

[Drew13440]

OK, I just blew the "quote" function - see above from NotJustDreaming.

I will shed no tears for you, madame. Two defined benefit pensions, plus RRSP's?

Here's what you do: stay in your job and put ALL of YOUR income into a boat - buy one with a five-year loan payment if you have to and get it paid for! You have six years for hubby to retire!

[jackiepitts]

Originally Posted by JiffyLube

Age does through a monkey wrench into the dream huh. Is there a point in time that a person should give up on a dream because of age (if still pretty much able bodied) or pursue the dream to the end? Is a dream just for younger people?

I do not think a dream is just for younger people but you do have to think of age to some degree when making these decisions. When we made the decision to sell our home 5 years ago we talked about waiting until we were older and more set in our retirement plan but I could not imagine starting our cruising life in our mid 60's. I am not saying it can't be done but there is a price you pay for waiting to go in your 60's . I imagine by the time we get into our 60's we will be looking to buy another house OR put the boat into a marina where life on a boat is not nearly challenging as cruising oceans.

[barnakiel]

Keep the house if you like it. If you don't like this house, sell it and get one you like. Then go cruising.

b.

[sww914]

I started a thread a year or so ago on one of these forums; happy you kept the house or happy you sold it?
It was about 80% happy it's gone or wish it was gone and about 20% wish I'd kept it or happy I kept it.
I wish I'd never bought a house. Bought for $426,000, sold for $194,000. Not an investment I'd like to repeat. Bad timing to be sure.

One thing we forget around here is that the cruisers that failed quickly or gave up quickly probably aren't hanging around with us anymore.

[Doodles]

Originally Posted by Jolly Roger

I agree with Gaylord’s analysis, (and many others as well), because we have the same conundrum, with four houses.
But we have a different outlook, with different questions, because the one thing nobody has mentioned is age.
When I was 36 we sold up, house and all, and with two small daughters lived aboard for six years—on a wing and a prayer. When we gave it up, (for various reasons), we sold our boat for what we paid for it, and I started another business in England. We then emigrated to the USA, where we have had a good life for thirty years.
So now you know my present age, but my outlook and the questions are different to what they were when I was 35: If we buy a boat, how much time do we have to livaboard and enjoy it? We must now buy health insurance, (a big cost), whereas I didn’t give a fig about that thirty years ago. Where will we live if/when we are forced to quit? Will we even be able to sell the boat, and will we have enough residual funds? (I don’t want to start working again at 70 something). Will our properties have appreciated or depreciated in this time?
So when we all expound our different theories and plans it might be worthwhile to add your age, because it has an important bearing on your dreams.

JR, snap out of it man! You sound like you have one foot in the grave already. Reese Pally cruised into his 80's and as far as I know still is. Living and cruising will keep you fit and challenged, and that's what we need as we get older.

[VirtualVagabond]

Originally Posted by Jolly Roger

So when we all expound our different theories and plans it might be worthwhile to add your age, because it has an important bearing on your dreams.

Good point.
In my late 20s I started building a 44 ft yacht. Opportunity came to migrate to Australia (from S. Africa) so sold up and figured I'd do it all again here. Then kids came and wife wanted the white picket fence deal so it became trailer sailers, beach cats etc. But the dream was still there in the background. Boats and wives have come and gone... I sure miss that Mottle 33...
10 years ago I would still have jumped aboard even a Wharram and taken off, but now, over the horizon side of 60, the experiences of a lifetime have taught me a couple of things, and fine tuned the dream.
1) Basic, sound, unglamorous, functional property, at the cheaper end will always be rented out easily. And pay a GOOD property manager to vet and control the tennants. Better than job-hopping while cruising.
2) Pension funds and social security are way too easy for governments to mess with, and they will always be trying to get away with as small an obligation as they can.
3) The livaboard life is more about living aboard than actual sailing. So, having a reasonably comfortable home on the water that can up anchor and sail COMFORTABLY as the mood, whim, climate and winds change will give far more pleasure (at 60+) than the ability to scorch round the bouys on a wednesday afternoon for the dubious honour of a pennant and a bottle of rum back at the clubhouse.
4) If you're lucky enough to have an adventurous partner who is keen (in her naivety) to give it a go, making a genuine effort to ensure it's a good life for her too is a really good, sound investment.
5) A merry heart doeth good like a medicine... A good sense of humour will weather some pretty rough storms and keep it fun...

35 years ago I couldn't have ticked any of those boxes, but now the ducks are nearly all in a row and we're up to our eyeballs in paint and pansies with the house going on the market this month (but not the investment properties)

There is no real better or worse time to chase that dream, just different.

[David_Old_Jersey]

Originally Posted by Doodles

JR, snap out of it man! You sound like you have one foot in the grave already. Reese Pally cruised into his 80's and as far as I know still is. Living and cruising will keep you fit and challenged, and that's what we need as we get older.

I dunno, I think has a point - as you get older less time available to recover from dropping a financial bollock, and often less earning capacity / less ability to re-enter the workplace at 110%..........so avoiding a financial wrong choice becomes increasingly important. and more of a worry.

On the other hand, in this day and age no reason why can't stay abreast of your local property market - even from Timbucktoo (tides permitting ). If you judge it a time to sell, you sell.

But I think for the letting market when accross the world important to have the right property, including with an eye on both maintanence costs and ease of (if you can't pop round to DIY or at least assess / supervise in the hands of others a tad more than is ideal).

On the retirement home / over 55's sheltered housing idea, me Father bought 1 a couple of years back for my (now late) Brother. Now rented out. Although not a flat the external maintanence is all part of the service charges, overall more expensive than DIY but as a rental IMO ideal as easy to budget against. and no seperate management to organise / pay for. I think it's on a 3 year lease at around 5% (plus annual RPI) against purchase price - no capital appreciation (judging by sales in the development), but the property market here flat and down a tad or 2 as elsewhere. Occupiers the younger end of 55+ so they will probably see the lease out. and possibly a renewal? In any event property is kinda like a Beneteau / Hunter - very cleverly designed, arguably at the cost of being a tad soulless ........but should make the end of lease refurb very straightforward / cheap. Probably won't get around to selling it until market picks up, not so much because thought to be a great investment in the next few years - more a case of no better ideas on where to put the cash .......and the income is inflation linked.

But a bit of a restricted market over here, so a steady stream of buyers / renters even if not in their 1,000's. Figure the most likely negative impact on capital growth would be other similar developments (and better?) coming on line.......so not a total buy and forget for 20 years package.

[Curmudgeon]

I would rent the house

1. rental income
2. tax deduction for mortgage interest
3, appreciation (hopefully)

[Doodles]

Originally Posted by Curmudgeon

I would rent the house

1. rental income
2. tax deduction for mortgage interest
3, appreciation (hopefully)

One problem with this to remember is you have converted a non-taxable capital gain (personal residence - up to $500K if married) to a taxable capital gain when you sell, assuming you don't move back in an live there for the required period.

[Homespun]

Originally Posted by Doodles

One problem with this to remember is you have converted a non-taxable capital gain (personal residence - up to $500K if married) to a taxable capital gain when you sell, assuming you don't move back in an live there for the required period.

True, but you only need to live in the house for 2 of the previous 5 years in order to avoid capital gains taxes, if the choice is made to sell. If you rent the house and decide to sell it within three years you will still not pay capital gains taxes (assuming it sells within that time frame). After three years, you'd pay, though, and that is clearly something to consider. Of course, if you are beyond that window, as you said, you could move back into the house for two years and then sell it, provided that is in keeping with your plans.

[Jolly Roger]

The various replies to my comment about age are fine, but I still say a person's outlook to a consideration of this magnitude—selling your house and living on a boat—are greatly influenced by your age, and I see nobody has yet posted theirs? Indeed, any advice should be accompanied with that, because much younger people have a greater timeframe to bounce back from, “dropping a financial bollock” as Dave so aptly puts it, to which I would add, "any other kind of bollock."
I would also like to reiterate to Doodles that I have actually done what we are all talking about, (how many members can claim that?), and now I’m seriously planning to do it again, thirty years later, but the considerations are now very different. Also, one of the advantages of age is that we can remember what it was like to be 35, and we know what it is now like at 65. The 35 something brigade however, do not know what it is like at 65, so I rest my case.