RipOff Reports

[GoingWalkabout]

There is a big difference between making a profit and gouging. When a boater is geld captive because of either his home port or foreign port is overcharging way above what is fair and reasonable than you have a rip off. Its not like a car were you can have a lot of options. A lot of times when something needs to be done then you are stuck with only one choice. Of course if you plan ahead and shop around you can avoid the rip off merchants but sometimes this isn't possible. I would love to see not just a forum on vendors but something like an Angies list for boaters. Just my two cents worth.

[scuba0_1]

That's called owning a luxury item.. If you can't do the work your self and have to pay some one who has the skill to do the job they have the right to charge what ever they want to. If you pay it great if not then they go out of business our they find people who are. You have no more right to decided he is charging to much than for you to decided what is correct or low. If you don't like the quote move on. If I worked in boats I'd charge the same amount to the mega yacht as I would one that was not. If you can't afford the luxury of maintaining the boat then maybe one should not own one. I also would guess if more did this the keys where I happen to be this weekend would not look like it dose with all those junk boats out there.

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[GoingWalkabout]

Being a free marketeer I have to agree with you. However there is a caveat. Antitrust laws were introduced not to inhibit the free market but to protect the free market from monopolists price rigging. So in a captive market there needs to be some protection against price fixing and or gauging. But given no reasonable way to protect boaters from price gauging the best option is to use your sales and be prepared to take your boat to other places up or down the coast or even another country.

I'm not sure if it exists but I would think a boaters report on service costs in different locations would be a useful way of injecting price competition into the market. Just a thought.

[bobnlesley]

"What I am suggesting is some kind of warning or alert for those who are ripping off by significant overcharging the boating community."


That Active Captain works for me whilst we've been here in the USA, I read (and contribute) posts there on service quality and prices quoted/charged - don't just bitch though, be sure to give a plug for the good ones too. Though like most information taken from the internet, I tend to be sceptical/wary and try to find cross-referencing info too; I'm sure we've all seen posts on the various forums from someone with a total post-history of <5, all of which directly or indirectly say "Business A is wonderful, but their competitors B,C,D,E and all the rest are terrible'.


As in all things, try to get more than one quotation and if you can't, ask the question on a forum such as this; even if people are reluctant to name-names on the open forum, they'll oftentimes be more candid in a PM.

[GoingWalkabout]

Originally Posted by bobnlesley

"What I am suggesting is some kind of warning or alert for those who are ripping off by significant overcharging the boating community."


That Active Captain works for me whilst we've been here in the USA, I read (and contribute) posts there on service quality and prices quoted/charged - don't just bitch though, be sure to give a plug for the good ones too. Though like most information taken from the internet, I tend to be sceptical/wary and try to find cross-referencing info too; I'm sure we've all seen posts on the various forums from someone with a total post-history of <5, all of which directly or indirectly say "Business A is wonderful, but their competitors B,C,D,E and all the rest are terrible'.


As in all things, try to get more than one quotation and if you can't, ask the question on a forum such as this; even if people are reluctant to name-names on the open forum, they'll oftentimes be more candid in a PM.

Good suggestions bobnlesley. Thanks. Sure helps to have a place of reference like you mentioned. Perhaps one day when I have the time.... ill make a spreadsheet like table, listing the work and estimated cost from various vendors along with the date. Things like per foot cost for bottom cleaning on the hard and the cost comparison for diver hull cleaning. Could work for things like instrument installations as well as repowering. Even various kinds of replacement sails. Call me old fashioned but I do love scanning information in spreadsheet like tables. Kind of easy to update and very easy to read. Given the connected world we live in I am still surprised at times how difficult information can be to find. Oh well so many things I could do and so little time.

[GoingWalkabout]

Having thought about a boaters table of cost for services as a guide for boaters I was thinking this could also be done for boat sales. Having the information in the tables able to be dynamically updated by the community or perhaps by a network of trusted moderators who will try to verify the vendor cost of services. It certainly would add a level of competition to the industry.

Another thought along this line is the true sales price of boats. The largest yacht sales site is basically a listing service for yacht brokers. With the largest in the case of popular craft being charter operators or their brokers. Resulting in a screwed and I would say rigged public sales price that is in a lot of cases nowhere near the true market price based on the most recent real sales. I do understand that a price rigged market for resale helps maximizing value for the seller but it does have a negative impact on the boating buying and selling market overall. As in all markets a healthy competitive sales aftermarket in the long run is the best. It increases turnover, bringing more buyers into the market who otherwise would sit on the fence when seeing unrealistic prices. Having more buyers enter the market rather than having many potentials sit on the fence will add to volume of yacht sales and both buyers and sellers will win. Anyway I could be way off track and perhaps there already exists a website for yachts that lists the real price of resale yachts other than the one hidden from the public that is used by the brokers .

[Cap Erict3]

Active Captain has proven to be an excellent resource for dealing with vendors that try to blow off warranty work as well as other less than scrupulous practices.

An estimate for services is a totally different thing than a contractual quote. While it could be an attempt at price gouging, it could also be a worse case scenario price that can change depending on any number of factors. That should be clarified up front.

Finding a good tech, whether in in the automotive or marine industry, is damn tough. Finding one that is also scrupulous in another matter entirely. How many people in your own profession inspire you with their integrity and ability?





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Looking for another pretty place to work on the boat.

[GoingWalkabout]

Originally Posted by Cap Erict3

Active Captain has proven to be an excellent resource for dealing with vendors that try to blow off warranty work as well as other less than scrupulous practices.

An estimate for services is a totally different thing than a contractual quote. While it could be an attempt at price gouging, it could also be a worse case scenario price that can change depending on any number of factors. That should be clarified up front.

Finding a good tech, whether in in the automotive or marine industry, is damn tough. Finding one that is also scrupulous in another matter entirely. How many people in your own profession inspire you with their integrity and ability?





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Looking for another pretty place to work on the boat.

Point very well taken and accepted. Thanks.

[onestepcsy37]

I must look like a newbie (even at my advanced age) or maybe an easy mark. When I hauled out at Westland Marina (great yard to do work in) I was approached by one of their outside vendors who carefully looked over the bumps on my waterline and advised me that I had blisters. He offered to peel the hull and epoxy coat for $3000, if I remember right. After glaring at him for fifteen seconds I asked if he had ever seen barnacles before. He just turned and walked off.

A yard worker let me know later that this guy had a reputation for hustling "rich" yachties. And that $3000 quote would have doubled before he was done.

[woff]

GARMIN EchoMap 53dv on Garmin's US site is quoted at $499 on the UK site is quoted at £499 at todays rate that is $780. I tried to buy at five foot power cable from Furuno and was quoted £80. A yard in Pasadena Maryland charged me $1000 to fit a transducer and when I challenged the bill he threatened to cut my boat in half, you know who you are MARK.
Once we've done the politicians...........

[haha49]

It's like a vet. First lesson in vet school how to bill based off what you think they can pay. Dress nice you get a larger bill dress like your homeless and it's alot less. They might have divers or pull it out of the water or patch things for that price. It seems high but who knows the boat may of had nothing done to it and is alot of hours to do

Always get a quote in writing if they need to charge more say a part needs to be done they can contact and go hey we couldn't see this rot for example it will cost this much more to fix

[GoingWalkabout]

Originally Posted by haha49

It's like a vet. First lesson in vet school how to bill based off what you think they can pay. Dress nice you get a larger bill dress like your homeless and it's alot less. They might have divers or pull it out of the water or patch things for that price. It seems high but who knows the boat may of had nothing done to it and is alot of hours to do

Always get a quote in writing if they need to charge more say a part needs to be done they can contact and go hey we couldn't see this rot for example it will cost this much more to fix

Reminds me of my art and antique business I had as a side activity. I used to get paintings from great artists in South Africa. Paid $80.00 a painting. Put them in a nice frame for $70.00 and sold them from $800 to $1,500 a piece. They are most likely worth a great deal now even given my huge profit margin. So I do understand charging what the market will pay. It's probably because of my own behavior that I resist paying excessive margins to other people. Everyone has to eat but then I don't have to be the one to pay for some guys exorbitant meal.

Because I'm a consumer in an industry known to whack it's customers with ridiculous prices I believe it's in all of our collective interests to call out those ripping us off and promoting those who deliver a good product or service at a fair price.

The Internet is a great tool for consumers and for those who are good and competitive is good for the merchant as well. I think it's time for an Angie's type list for service providers and product sellers. Just my thoughts. And I will in future hide my Rolex and dress like a Walmart shopper when I approach a boat seller :-) Thanks

[mstrebe]

Originally Posted by GoingWalkabout

There is a big difference between making a profit and gouging. When a boater is geld captive because of either his home port or foreign port is overcharging way above what is fair and reasonable than you have a rip off. Its not like a car were you can have a lot of options. A lot of times when something needs to be done then you are stuck with only one choice. Of course if you plan ahead and shop around you can avoid the rip off merchants but sometimes this isn't possible. I would love to see not just a forum on vendors but something like an Angies list for boaters. Just my two cents worth.

I've always gotten multiple quotes from multiple vendors for any job that's over my cost comfort thresh-hold. There's generally one outlier on the high side (that has a lot of marketing) and the rest of them usually come in very near one another.

In boatyards it's often cheaper to pay the yard fee to use your own venders than it is to have their people do it, but I've never seen a boatyard in my life that restricted people to using only their services. I wouldn't haul out into one.

In an emergency repair situation in a small port with a single vendor, I suppose you could get ripped off, but what good would a service that rates ripoff vendors do in this case? You'd have to use them anyway if they were truly the only ones available.

The right way to not get ripped off is the same as it's been for thousands of years: Shop around.