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23-02-2012, 15:47
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#16
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Philippines in the winters
Boat: It’s in French Polynesia now
Posts: 11,368
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Re: Propane class action
In the good ole daze they use to put the bottles on a scale and they charged you for what ever was put in. Now, they just fill the bottle until it starts coming out the overflow valve, supposedly. Several times I've had to point them in the right direction to get a full bottle.
__________________
Faithful are the Wounds of a Friend, but the Kisses of the Enemy are Deceitful! ........
The measure of a man is how he navigates to a proper shore in the midst of a storm!
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23-02-2012, 15:55
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#17
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 2,492
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Re: Propane class action
Quote:
Originally Posted by delmarrey
Now, they just fill the bottle until it starts coming out the overflow valve, supposedly.
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That's how they are supposed to do it. That's rather the definition of overflow valve, isn't it?
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23-02-2012, 16:06
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#18
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Wandering the US Gulf Coast
Boat: 78 Pearson323 Four Winds
Posts: 2,212
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Re: Propane class action
Mark, my friend started painting custom cars with Imron when it came out back in the '70s. He never used a respirator, and was still doing this in the late 80s when I caught up with him after the Air Force.
Today, he is disabled with a nervous system that is totally destroyed.
We graduated from high school at the same time and he looks twenty years older than me and probably won't be with us much longer.
I've painted every car I've owned but donned the respirator before opening the can every time.
It's a sad thing, but yes he takes undue risks.
He was also a remarkable pilot and did the first flight of more than a dozen home built aerobatic planes over the years, because the owners were hesitant to do so.
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23-02-2012, 16:06
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#19
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: On Board, just above the water
Boat: Camano Troll 31'
Posts: 1,201
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Re: Propane class action
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkSF
That's how they are supposed to do it. That's rather the definition of overflow valve, isn't it?
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Yes, but you should only pay for what you get. If you show up with 5lbs in your tank and he fills it to the overflow should he be able to charge you for a full tank?
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23-02-2012, 16:16
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#20
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Philippines in the winters
Boat: It’s in French Polynesia now
Posts: 11,368
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Re: Propane class action
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkSF
That's how they are supposed to do it. That's rather the definition of overflow valve, isn't it?
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Yes, but they cheat and shut it down before it is actually full. The liquid is splashing around from the fill and hitting the over fill hole.
They now also they use a meter which is supposed to be measuring the flow and charge you per gallon. but I've seen those things jump around like it has air pockets running through it. The weight is what will actually determine what's in the bottle. That's why they call them 20#, 30#, 40#, 100# and so on. Every 20# is 4.72 gallons.
__________________
Faithful are the Wounds of a Friend, but the Kisses of the Enemy are Deceitful! ........
The measure of a man is how he navigates to a proper shore in the midst of a storm!
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23-02-2012, 16:18
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#21
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 2,492
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Re: Propane class action
Quote:
Originally Posted by Don1500
Yes, but you should only pay for what you get. If you show up with 5lbs in your tank and he fills it to the overflow should he be able to charge you for a full tank?
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They normally have a meter on the pump and should charge you for what you have used.
The answer is not to try and overfill the tank, but to charge honestly. I had to go around a few places before I found one that did not have a ridiculous minimum charge.
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23-02-2012, 16:59
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#22
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Md, USA
Posts: 433
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Re: Propane class action
Does anyone know if temperature has anything to do with the flow? I was once told temperature had more to do with what you get than anything...
__________________
ShaunJ
I get knocked down...But get up again...
You're never going to keep me down....
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23-02-2012, 17:24
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#23
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Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Key West & Sarasota
Boat: Cal 28 "Happy Days"
Posts: 4,210
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Re: Propane class action
The "overflow" is properly called a 10% valve. A 20# propane tank is designed to hold 18# (or 20x90%) The 20 comes from the mathematical volume of the tank (often stamped "WC" meaning water capacity. IF the tank were filled with LP, it would in fact contain twenty pounds.
If you get a tank filled without CONSTANT liquid issuing from the 10% valve... you are getting short changed!
__________________
Any fool with a big enough checkbook can BUY a boat; it takes a SPECIAL type of fool to build his own! -Capngeo
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23-02-2012, 17:32
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#24
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Philippines in the winters
Boat: It’s in French Polynesia now
Posts: 11,368
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Re: Propane class action
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShaunJ
Does anyone know if temperature has anything to do with the flow? I was once told temperature had more to do with what you get than anything...
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It can! See this link>>> Propane Facts & Comparison Charts
__________________
Faithful are the Wounds of a Friend, but the Kisses of the Enemy are Deceitful! ........
The measure of a man is how he navigates to a proper shore in the midst of a storm!
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23-02-2012, 19:11
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#25
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Caribbean live aboard
Boat: Camper & Nicholson58 Ketch - ROXY Traverse City, Michigan No.668283
Posts: 6,356
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Re: Propane class action
Quote:
Originally Posted by grouchyturtle
But is 20lbs the maximum capacity on these? Or is that what their rated for, and they actually hold more?
Like scuba cylinders for example. 80lbs. means 80lbs. of gas, actually just slightly below. It doesn't mean that's it's maximum capacity. The maximum pressure on any breathing gas cylinder is going to be way beyond it's stamped rating. I find it strange that other types of storage cylinders wouldn't be the same.
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Its a world of difference for liquified combustable gas compared to breathing gas. Also DOT gets involved. The consideration is to leave ample volume over the liquid to permit inevitable conditions of sitting in the sun etc. without venting. 10# means 10 pounds net over the tank empty weight. The tank also must contain no non-condensables. That means no nitrogen, oxygen, CO2 etc - only propane. If the tank is emptied, vented, valve changed - it needs to be flushed with propane to be sure all other gasses are out. Basically, don't push legal limits as you could be putting yourself at risk. Even so, treat it like a bomb.
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24-02-2012, 15:59
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#27
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 22
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Re: Propane class action
Quote:
Originally Posted by grouchyturtle
But is 20lbs the maximum capacity on these? Or is that what their rated for, and they actually hold more?
Like scuba cylinders for example. 80lbs. means 80lbs. of gas, actually just slightly below. It doesn't mean that's it's maximum capacity. The maximum pressure on any breathing gas cylinder is going to be way beyond it's stamped rating. I find it strange that other types of storage cylinders wouldn't be the same.
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The weight stamped is the maximum capacity. The maximum fill capacity for transportation is always 80% of the maximum capacity. The reseller is not permitted to exceed the 80% of the maximum. A 20 lb. container can be filled with up to 16 lbs. of propane.
More accurately, add the tare weight to the 80% figure and that is the total legal weight of the container.
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24-02-2012, 16:12
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#28
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֍֎֍֎֍֎֍֎֍֎
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 15,136
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Re: Propane Class Action
Bear in mind that propane tanks are "LPG" LIQUIFIED propane gas. Not at all the same as SCUBA tanks carrying COMPRESSED air that is nowhere near liquified.
The propane changes phase from gas to liquid under pressure, and needs to be able to change back to gas before it leaves the tank. Different set of constraints from just keeping compressed air in a SCUBA tank.
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24-02-2012, 16:27
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#29
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Moderator and Certifiable Refitter
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: South of 43 S, Australia
Boat: C.L.O.D.
Posts: 20,305
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Re: Propane class action
Quote:
Originally Posted by capngeo
The "overflow" is properly called a 10% valve. A 20# propane tank is designed to hold 18# (or 20x90%) The 20 comes from the mathematical volume of the tank (often stamped "WC" meaning water capacity. IF the tank were filled with LP, it would in fact contain twenty pounds.
If you get a tank filled without CONSTANT liquid issuing from the 10% valve... you are getting short changed!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian in Az
The weight stamped is the maximum capacity. The maximum fill capacity for transportation is always 80% of the maximum capacity. The reseller is not permitted to exceed the 80% of the maximum. A 20 lb. container can be filled with up to 16 lbs. of propane.
More accurately, add the tare weight to the 80% figure and that is the total legal weight of the container.
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OK guys, is it 10% or 20%?
__________________
All men dream: but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find it was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangereous men, for they may act their dreams with open eyes, to make it possible. T.E. Lawrence
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24-02-2012, 18:15
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#30
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Seattle
Boat: Cal 40 (sold). Still have a Hobie 20
Posts: 2,944
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Re: Propane class action
Did anyone see my last post? I went and read the WC right off of the tank. Unless you dispute the densities I used, the tank can hold 24 lbs of propane. If you fill it to 20 lbs that's 80%.
John
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian in Az
The weight stamped is the maximum capacity. The maximum fill capacity for transportation is always 80% of the maximum capacity. The reseller is not permitted to exceed the 80% of the maximum. A 20 lb. container can be filled with up to 16 lbs. of propane.
More accurately, add the tare weight to the 80% figure and that is the total legal weight of the container.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wotname
OK guys, is it 10% or 20%?
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