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Old 19-06-2024, 03:49   #1
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no response from dealers

Hi all,
I'm trying to buy a Fountaine Pajot built between 2016 and 2023 (Lucia, Isla, Astrea or Helia Evolution).

I found several interesting boats on Yachtworld, Boat24 and so on, but as many requests I send, in 90% of my requests to professional dealers I don't even get a response. Only the automatically generated one which comes immediately. Even to phonecalls they don't reply.

Why is someone offering a boat, when he is not interested in selling it? Or did I miss something ?

Heiko
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Old 19-06-2024, 11:38   #2
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Re: no response from dealers

Brokers frequently ignore calls and messages from people who they believe are unlikely to follow through and purchase the boat they have for sale.


To overcome this, make it clear that you're a serious buyer on initial contact. You might, for example, mention that the sale of your previous boat just closed, or that you had just looked at two other Fountaine Pajots and want to get a look at one more before deciding which one to make an offer on, or that you're going to be in Miami (or wherever the target boat is located) on Monday looking at another boat and might be able to work in a visit to this boat, etc. Assuming these things are true.
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Old 19-06-2024, 11:52   #3
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Re: no response from dealers

A new boat salesguy I know frequently got mail with handwritten addresses and a box number for the return address.

In most cases the box number was for a prison. These were prisoners dreaming of buying a sailboat when they got out.

That's why it's good to put in your message to a boat sales person that you plan to buy a boat in the next 60 days as well as provide a bit of information about yourself.
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Old 19-06-2024, 11:54   #4
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Re: no response from dealers

When I bought mine Prout I strait up quit looking at any boat listed with broker.

Only one broker ever responded out of ~20 I tried to look at.
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Old 19-06-2024, 13:20   #5
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Re: no response from dealers

I have had similar experiences with Brokers.. Which has lead me to believe selling my boats through a broker is a waste of time.

When I was a buyer:
Emails and Voicemails get no call backs.

When I did finally speak to a couple people they knew nothing about the boat beyond what was on the listing and the listing was missing all sorts of important information.

I feel like if I hire you to sell my boat by "listing" with you, but you are not going to follow up on every lead: what am I paying you for??


As a seller:

I had a potential buyer demand we go through a broker "for safety" and the broker had 2 contracts that needed to be filled out just and signed just so the potential buyer could get a survey done. It literally was 2 weeks and 3 follow up calls later and she still hadn't forwarded my signed contract to the buyer!


So far the entire experience makes me feel like being a successful broker might not be so hard- answer the phone, follow up on leads: success!

Of course, I also plainly see that judging an industry based on a handful of experiences is not fair... But damn it sucks when you cannot get a call back on the boat you want or get jerked around by someone who clearly thinks their time is far more valuable than yours.
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Old 19-06-2024, 14:06   #6
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Re: no response from dealers

When inquiring about a boat I don’t feel I should have to justify my reason for inquiring. If I like a particular boat and the broker doesn’t reply or seems disinterested I’d get another broker to work with on the boat. Bingo! The selling broker just lost 50% of the commission!
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Old 19-06-2024, 14:59   #7
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Re: no response from dealers

Quote:
Originally Posted by BenBowSirocco View Post
Of course, I also plainly see that judging an industry based on a handful of experiences is not fair... But damn it sucks when you cannot get a call back on the boat you want or get jerked around by someone who clearly thinks their time is far more valuable than yours.
The problem that brokers have is that they get dozens of calls a day from people who want to learn about boats, people who want to understand the market, people who want to explore the idea of buying a boat -- but who aren't going to buy a boat from the broker.

No broker can field all these calls and entertain all these questions and still have time to actually sell boats.

I will say that I have made two boat purchases and two sales through brokers and have found the services they provide to be worthwhile and a fair value for the money spent. The only real frustration I've had was on the sell side where a broker who had many boats for sale was not making a particular effort to sell my boat because they were also representing so many other similar boats.
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Old 19-06-2024, 16:23   #8
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Re: no response from dealers

Some sellers on the internet are bait and switch and really don't have the actual boat in question, based on your enquiry they will try and figure out if getting back to you is worth their while. That is the shady side, quite often not based in the USA.
A reputable broker will normally have someone email or text you back as an acknowledgement, so google the broker and see if it seems like a place with an office a fixed phone line and location and not just an online seller.


For example see this add and look up the broker:
https://www.yachtworld.com/yacht/201...ia-40-9370522/
I would be surprised if you get no response, I bought a cat through these guys - extremely responsive. I have no affiliation with them other than being a customer several years ago.
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Old 19-06-2024, 17:31   #9
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Re: no response from dealers

I became good friends with a yacht broker some years ago, and it is certainly interesting and informative to hear his side of the story, when it comes to dealing with prospective buyers.
One thing is for certain, they can spot a "tire kicker" from miles away, and generally speaking, will avoid them like the plague.

You, as a prospective buyer, need to get your ducks in a row, before you call a broker.
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Old 19-06-2024, 17:43   #10
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Re: no response from dealers

It is time once again for the weekly, or fortnightly, broker bash on CruisersForum. Let me sit back with a bowl of popcorn...

I do wonder about something... If brokers NEVER respond to any potential buyer how exactly do they make any money?

As has been suggested, brokers get a LOT of enquires. The vast majority are known in the business as "gopher whistles"*

No broker can ever respond to everybody who asks about a boat. It is impossible. They all have filters. Some of the filters are based on how likely the perceive the contact to actually have the cash to buy a boat, and some of the filters are based on how annoying they imagine the contact will be to work with. Nobody's filters are perfect. I know a lot of people who were serious about buying a boat who got blown off by a broker. But I also know that most brokers end up wasting a lot of time with lookie-loos, or jerks who seem to do everything they can to kill a sure deal.

If you want a broker to actually make time for you, a clearly written, well punctuated, and polite email is a start. Explain why it is you are interested in that particular boat. Explain how you are going to pay for it. Explain what boats you have owned before. Explain how you plan to use the boat. Make it clear you have done your homework. Give an idea of your timeline. Ask if it would be possible to set up a specific time for a phone conversation.

If you are buying a boat, and you actually want a decent selection of the boats on the market that sell for more than $100K you will either will learn how to deal with a broker, or you will have slim pickings. The idea that "I would never buy a boat from a broker" is fine is you are buying cheap, old boats, but if you want something decent that has been decently maintained, you will need to suck it up and do so, or you will have a very limited selection of boats.

You have to ask yourself, if NO broker EVER responds to any of my questions, it it the broker? Or maybe it's me?

---------
* Shopper: "That's a nice boat. What's she go fer?"
Broker: "$$$$$$$$"
Shopper: [Whistles softly] and walks away
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Old 19-06-2024, 19:50   #11
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Re: no response from dealers

Quote:
Originally Posted by SailingHarmonie View Post
It is time once again for the weekly, or fortnightly, broker bash on CruisersForum. Let me sit back with a bowl of popcorn...

I do wonder about something... If brokers NEVER respond to any potential buyer how exactly do they make any money?

As has been suggested, brokers get a LOT of enquires. The vast majority are known in the business as "gopher whistles"*

No broker can ever respond to everybody who asks about a boat. It is impossible. They all have filters. Some of the filters are based on how likely the perceive the contact to actually have the cash to buy a boat, and some of the filters are based on how annoying they imagine the contact will be to work with. Nobody's filters are perfect. I know a lot of people who were serious about buying a boat who got blown off by a broker. But I also know that most brokers end up wasting a lot of time with lookie-loos, or jerks who seem to do everything they can to kill a sure deal.

If you want a broker to actually make time for you, a clearly written, well punctuated, and polite email is a start. Explain why it is you are interested in that particular boat. Explain how you are going to pay for it. Explain what boats you have owned before. Explain how you plan to use the boat. Make it clear you have done your homework. Give an idea of your timeline. Ask if it would be possible to set up a specific time for a phone conversation.

If you are buying a boat, and you actually want a decent selection of the boats on the market that sell for more than $100K you will either will learn how to deal with a broker, or you will have slim pickings. The idea that "I would never buy a boat from a broker" is fine is you are buying cheap, old boats, but if you want something decent that has been decently maintained, you will need to suck it up and do so, or you will have a very limited selection of boats.

You have to ask yourself, if NO broker EVER responds to any of my questions, it it the broker? Or maybe it's me?

---------
* Shopper: "That's a nice boat. What's she go fer?"
Broker: "$$$$$$$$"
Shopper: [Whistles softly] and walks away
I didnít realize to get a broker interested in selling a boat you had to fill out an application and take extra care so as not to piss them off.
Iíve dealt with quite a few brokers and also real estate agents and honestly the good ones are few and far between. The good ones realize they will have to work for a sale and not discount anyone for who may be a lookie loo. They realize they may have to actually answer questions in regards to the boat, and believe it or not, they may have to work to get those answers. The good ones also realize who is working for who.
Being a good broker means a lot of work and some very frustrating times, but thatís why they make a better living than those that arenít good at their trade.
I appreciate good brokers and good real estate agents but have no time to deal with those that are self important and lazy.
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Old 19-06-2024, 22:00   #12
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Re: no response from dealers

Quote:
Originally Posted by smj View Post
I didnít realize to get a broker interested in selling a boat you had to fill out an application and take extra care so as not to piss them off.
Iíve dealt with quite a few brokers and also real estate agents and honestly the good ones are few and far between. The good ones realize they will have to work for a sale and not discount anyone for who may be a lookie loo. They realize they may have to actually answer questions in regards to the boat, and believe it or not, they may have to work to get those answers. The good ones also realize who is working for who.
Being a good broker means a lot of work and some very frustrating times, but thatís why they make a better living than those that arenít good at their trade.
I appreciate good brokers and good real estate agents but have no time to deal with those that are self important and lazy.
Every profession has people competent and those who are not. That is obvious and self-evident.

I have had the good fortune to only deal with brokers who came highly recommended by people I trust. They were all helpful and honest and did what was necessary to make the deal happen. I am 100% sure that dealing with random brokers is a frustrating experience. Lots, and lots of sailors think they could be a good broker. They are--mostly--wrong.

I can assure you no broker can afford to give every single person who makes contact about every boat he has listed the same level of attention. They all have to filter the contacts. You can decide that all the brokers who let you in past their filter are "good" and all the others are "bad". That's one criteria...

Sometimes, if you are buying a used car, you have to deal with a used car salesman to get the car you want. As soon as you start to make it personnel, you are making it less likely you will get what you want. My approach, I'll do what I need to do to get what I want. If I feel someone is not doing their job, and they have what I want, I suck it up and deal. If you prefer to walk away and pass by a deal because the broker is not doing what you think he should, that is your approach. If you want to buy a Beneateu 40-something, that's not a big deal there are a hundred of them for sale. If you want a more specialized vessel, you might end up not getting what you want. I have seen a lot of that.

But let's be clear, very few people have actually bought enough boats that they can truly understand the business, but they all have an opinion.

Let's put the cards on the table here, more specifically. There are not a lot of really good, helpful brokers who specialize in selling boats at the $30K price point. Some, I am sure. Really good brokers, have the reputation and market savvy to move up market. The more expensive the boat, the more you will find brokers who know their stuff. Although, again, there are exceptions...
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Old 20-06-2024, 00:00   #13
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Re: no response from dealers

If you want to winnow through brokers to find a good one, here is one way.

First create your list of wants. In the case of the OP, such a list might include other brands of cats that would be considered.

Also, include your deal breakers: only single masted boats would be considered (if this is the case); In our case, no Volvo engines, no saildrives, was one of our requirements.

All communications face to face, saves a tremendous amount of time over all, because you read negative vibes instantaneously, and so do they. We had a fancy broker tell us what we wanted didn't exist (which means he doesn't have it, because WE have it now). But we did find a broker who looked at our whole list of wants and dealbreakers, smiled at us and said, "I wish everyone was this clear about what they want." He called a few days later, and asked, "Would you give me a morning to look at two boats I know you don't want, and listen to you tell me why you don't want them?" And we did and he did, and he still didn't have what we wanted, but we stayed in touch for about a year, till we found this boat through a friend. I would take this boat to him to sell for me tomorrow--if we were going to sell her--because he spent time and effort, because he listened intelligently, and if someone as picky as us came along, with similar prejudices about boats, he could sell her in a flash, and we'd both benefit.

Our list had ~24 non-negotiable items on it. That is the type of specificity that Jammer was suggesting, and it helped both ways. Guys & gals who weren't interested were basically horrified; someone who understood was happy to help. It is a good thing to reassure them that you have the funding lined up. That was not difficult in our case; we got the transfer over a weekend and could document the cash was available. If that is the OP's position, that would help.

Maybe purchasing from a private party would be easier if you don't really know what you want besides a generic boat. No offense intended, but if you're buying an entry level boat, brokers can tell, and some will try to take advantage, as will any other seller.

Beware of anyone who tries to minimize what you'll have to do to get it to and keep it to your standards.

Ann
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Old 20-06-2024, 03:22   #14
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Re: no response from dealers

Hi all,
thanks for your proposals and ideas. I will try to "optimize" our search and hope, it works

Heiko
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Old 20-06-2024, 04:08   #15
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Re: no response from dealers

Quote:
Originally Posted by AndreaHeiko View Post
Hi all,
I'm trying to buy a Fountaine Pajot built between 2016 and 2023 (Lucia, Isla, Astrea or Helia Evolution).
A lot of the advice speculates brokers can spot tire kickers. How? What exactly has the Op said that screams "no need to waste time with this guy?" OP sounds pretty specific to me. Maybe he could tweak his approach a bit with language, but that's semantics.

Think about it: if you were an agent and had a 2019 FP Isla listed for sale and a guy reached out with the OPs criteria, what could he possibly say that said "waste of time" (okay, possibly "I want the boat for under $100k USD" or something disqualifying)? There has to be something else at play here - not sure I'd be so quick to defend/explain broker's BS meter.

I wonder if it's as simple as many brokerages list boats where they are not the actual listing agent, but rather just a dragnet of MLS boats. Maybe the 10% response rate are the actual listing agents and the 90% are the tire-kickers on the sell side. Is it possible to identify the listing broker on a boat and only contact them?
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