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Pinchecharlie · 22-09-2023, 14:40

As an outsider looking in it seems you buy a boat or you don’t have a boat. My wife and I are seriously considering a extended stay aboard a sailboat. To be specific we are considering three years with some time on land intermixed. I have been window shopping and have been disappointed I had not made more money in life (lol) and thought that the experience could have the potential to be not good in the price range I had in mind. I had originally thought that I should buy out right and that’s that. Now iam wondering if I finance will I get a better experience (better boat) (better resale) ?? I had live soent my life doing what ever it took and have never ow Ed a Cadillac even though I could afford one. What I see with the boats are the different in quality of life aboard as far as light and room ? I can not afford a catamaran. Wish I could honestly but I can’t. I can however affixed 70-100k and now I wonder if I should finance another 50-70 and have a big step up in boat? I say this with only an outsiders perspective , no real world experience. If it was just me I would not consider such a high price. I have a wonderful wife and a nine year old daughter. Must be safe and must be comfortable)at least as much as is possible) my tentative plan would be to start in the Adriatic. Maybe it should be to be in the Mediterranean only. Maybe to sail for a year there and sell and buy in another location? I do not know but iam trying to form a plan to research so I can make real sense of it. I will have to go back to work unfortunately after but we are thinking it may be a good thing for our daughter who is an other than ordinary child lol.

**TrentePieds** · 22-09-2023, 15:40

Pinchecharlie:

You may have heard the expression "A sailor on horseback" denoting someone who is entirely out of his element. The opposite is equally true. "A cowboy aboard ship" would be equally out of his element. The long and the short of it is that unless you have some actual experience of seafaring you would be very unwise to sink any substantial portion of your family's substance into a boat with the intention of living aboard her.

TrentePieds is 30 foot overall, and has a 9K lbs displacement. She is big enuff to accommodate my wife and me living aboard for a few weeks, in a pinch even three or four months. We are both WELL past retirement age and therefore there are no children to be accommodated. TP is NOT big enuff for us to live aboard permanently, or even for a year.

I consider that for what you are proposing you will need a boat of 40 feet or so, but even then you will find it very, very confining compared with what you are accustomed to. And unlike your situation in Bozeman, aboard a boat you CANNOT simply go for a walk when the emotional walls close in!

Given your daughter's age you should consider very, very carefully if the "home schooling" that will be the ineluctable consequence of your "running away to sea" will serve her well both in terms of the socialization that just now is becoming the sine qua non for her successful integration into society with all that that means for future job prospects.

Unlike your situation in Bozeman where you may own real estate that APpreciates over time, your situation as a boat owner will be that your estate - no longer "real", but "personal" - will DEpreciate, and quite rapidly too. For a family man in the present world to make such a trade would, IMO, be very unwise!

TP's ownership costs are a steady Can$1K per month, year out, year in. And she is in very gentle service. For a 40 footer in moderately hard use as a live aboard cruiser in the Adriatic or the Med I would allow Can$2,500 per month for ownership and maintenance costs. That is for the boat. Food costs and all the other "personal" costs would be in addition. Should you have bad luck and need to replace the engine in a forty-footer you'd be looking at an unavoidable, immediate cash outlay over and above the ongoing costs of something like $20K

The best thing you can do for your family and possibly yourself is scratch the itch you are now feeling by taking a "cruise and learn" vacation at a reputable charter company/sailing school such as Cooper's in Vancouver, Canada (https://www.cooperboating.com/). Fifty long years ago I skippered and taught on such cruises in a very substantial 65 foot ketch. I still have mementos from families that were grateful for having had their eyes opened :-)!

To get you started, get The Proper Yacht by Arthur Beiser. You can get it for a modest cost off Amazon. It will set you thinking in a useful, proper manner about what sailing yachts are and how they can fit into a man's life without destroying his family's substance and welfare.

Do some reading, stay in touch and take a coastal cruising course from a professional sailing school lest you should get too big for your sea boots :-)!

All the best to you and your family :-)!

TrentePieds

desodave · 22-09-2023, 16:48

EVERYTHING TP says imo. We have a modern 42ft boat and even it gets confining after a few weeks out on it. And it will especially be the case if you're used to the wide open spaces. There are several charter companies operating on your side of the 49th in Puget Sound as well, esp out of Anacortes.

We started out by chartering and decided that we really liked the life on the water, which then lead to us buying our own boat. But you need some qualifications to be able to charter. I took lessons as a refresher from Coopers and then chartered for 2 weeks from them. Initially I had taken lessons 20 yrs previously, chartered for a couple of summers then done very little in the intervening years. A cruise 'n learn would probably put you in a place to charter yourself from the same company at least. You might also find some sailing clubs on your Montana lakes to learn with on small boats ... same principles apply as on the bigger ones. Invest a little in some good holidays afloat, then evaluate your dreams.

Pinchecharlie · 22-09-2023, 17:00

Thanks. We are only discussing it now and all your points are all the points I think anyone would consider. They are good and at the same time the thing that makes me wonder how anyone ever sailed around at all lol. We have several rental properties and we will not “sell the house to go sail the world.” We can easily raise between 2-6k a month from our investments here but I won’t be able to work . We also had said we may want to part time on the boat and with a tentative plan of 3 years that makes the kid 12 . Leaving plenty of time to catch back up with the jones’s? I do understand there is a long hard learning curve and it’s a very dangerous endeavor hence the the lack of sailboats and marinas around the world. Oh wait….I do have one ideas that I will surly find out is false and that’s the idea the sailboat is just a floating camper?? We are doing another few courses obviously before we buy but to rent for several months is a waste in my opinion. Thanks for the reply. We live in a 900 square foot home so it’s kinda like a boat lol. Yes you can walk on land that’s a bonus I guess. Do sailors “go for walks” ? Is that called going for a swim?

DEAN2140 · 23-09-2023, 11:25

One thing you haven't considered is seasickness. The idyllic life presented by the sailing magazines doesn't show people hanging over the leeward side of the boat feeding the fishes.There are numerous other discomforts that I won't mention here. Just be aware that your family and you may not be so keen on sailing after you give it a try. That is why I also endorse chartering a boat, ideally in the Caribbean because it is the best sailing area in the world, and if you or your family are not happy there sailing is not for you.

Pinchecharlie · 23-09-2023, 12:00

I did consider seasickness . I haven’t gotten sea sick yet but iam sure I will someday. Do other sailors get seasick sometimes? Or do only non seasickness people get to go sailing? I lived in Kauai for a lot of my life and I just don’t really are about the Caribbean all that much . Not to be harsh but I’ve lived that kindov life and it’s not as interesting as the med to me. If I had my stitchers I’d go straight to Indonesia but I think I’d probably be lost at sea. I grew up surfing and like I said in Hawaii so I get the ocean environment a little. I’ve only lived here since 2094 and iam 56 . So what about the questions I asked?

**boatman61** · 23-09-2023, 13:37

If you want a catamaran there are non condo models in your price range..
I recommend you look at the Prout range, from the Event 34 to the Elite 37 in particular.. https://www.katamarans.com/prout-snowgoose-37/

https://www.apolloduck.eu/boat/prout...or-sale/725129

https://www.apolloduck.eu/boat/prout...or-sale/716938

Or.. If you can stretch your budget a bit a 39ft Scale..

https://www.apolloduck.eu/boat/prout...or-sale/731805

These boats tend to hold their second hand value pretty well if looked after.
PS.. Buy in UK or Europe.

Joh.Ghurt · 23-09-2023, 14:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pinchecharlie

I did consider seasickness . I haven’t gotten sea sick yet but iam sure I will someday. Do other sailors get seasick sometimes? Or do only non seasickness people get to go sailing?

Yes, I do get seasick, when things pick up a bit. My son is a barf-artist a lot worse than I. The solution? Tablets that work.

On board I have some containing 50 mg of dimenhydrinate and 50 mg of caffeine. They worked fine for everyone who needed them without knocking them out.

**Don C L** · 23-09-2023, 15:12

If I were in your position I think I'd consider flying the family to the Med and chartering there to try it out. I have never done that, but I think it is a better bet than planning to spend $100,000 or so before you know what you are in for. And it'll be a nice vacation.

And, personally I'd never finance a boat. Someone here once said, "never spend more on a boat than you are willing to lose." Not bad advice I think.

Once you know what sailing is like you'll be in a much better position to judge the pros/cons of boat ownership.

**TrentePieds** · 23-09-2023, 15:17

Pinchecharlie said: " I can not afford a catamaran. Wish I could honestly but I can’t. I can however affixed 70-100k and now I wonder if I should finance another 50-70 and have a big step up in boat?"

He also said: "We have several rental properties and we will not “sell the house to go sail the world.” We can easily raise between 2-6k a month from our investments here but I won’t be able to work "

Izz a puzzlement!

When a vessel, whether mono-hull or catamaran, perfectly able to cross oceans, can be found quite easily within the 70 to 100 kilobuck range you cite, why would you contemplate putting yourself in hock for anything beyond that?

Very, very few vessels are sold for more than the owner paid for them, so why invite an incremental eventual loss for which you would owe your soul to the company store?

Since, as per your assertion implicit in the second of the quotes above, you are a competent financial manager, why are you asking a forum whose members' competencies, by and large, lie in directions other than accounting and financial management, for advice on something so fundamental?

If my octogenarian memory hasn't failed me completely, it is only a year ago that you were asking us about McGregor 22s to play with on the lakes of Montana. Did you ever get one?

The questions you are now asking clearly have answers to be found in the realm of financial management rather than in the ins and outs of seafaring, which is the expertise of our forum. If you were to ask this retired accountant with considerable experience in the management of rental properties about your proposed plan, he would advise you, as he is now doing, to do a great deal of homework before you proceed.

For example, referring to your contention that a 900 square foot house means "living small", he would advise you to go here:

https://sailboatdata.com/

Study the arrangement plans of the many, may boats that are in your price range assiduously. Do so with particular attention to the ACTUAL "floor area" of such boats. I assume that you have a scale ruler, or that you are able to make one based on the LWL given with each GAP. You will see that the area of the "floor" below decks (properly called the "sole" in a boat) will be scarcely more than 1/10 of that of your 900 square foot house. Bear in mind that even in a 40-footer the toilet room (the "heads") will be so small as to make it impossible for a well grown man to "do the paper work" without impinging on the passage without. And as for showering - which women of all ages insist upon - the less said about the ensuing necessary cleanup the better. Principal among the many things you don't want below decks in a boat is water!

Again: The way to get a real appreciation of the joys of "living aboard" is to charter :-)!

Bonne chance!

TrentePieds

**Don C L** · 23-09-2023, 15:17

I think everyone gets seasick in the early phases. You either get over it or you keep the pills handy. I do have a friend though who loved sailing but got really sick all the time. He had to give it up.

Pinchecharlie · 23-09-2023, 18:55

I had hoped I would get deathly seasick so that I could just buy a condo somewhere but I didn’t. I have only sailed once in big seas and I didn’t get sea sick untili came on land after lol. We sailed from the big island to Kauai in giant waves and it was scary lol. I only use forums because it’s an escape for me. It’s supposed to be fun. I’ve done a lot in my life and I’ve earned the privilege to spend my money how I see fit. Doesn’t matter what others think to me. Ive seen a lot of the world. I think people see your from Montana and think your a hick. I was born on the island of Kauai. I lived there until I was 38. I surfed in the ocean my whole life. I lived in Australia, New Zealand and Bali to surf. I’ve surfed in Africa both north and south. I’ve traveled central and South America as well as some time in Spain and France. Iam an accomplished out doorsman as well. Including whitewater kayaking and rafting and have done many world class rivers and many many multi day remote whitewater river trips including class v rivers abroad. I even volunteered to cook for the soldiers at mc murdo station and spent six month in Antarctic (I was young and dumb)
Iam 56 Iam not rich but have saved a few hundred thousand dollars. It’s not enough but it’s some. We have an income. We have a young daughter who may benefit from an alternative life style for a few years. Doesn’t seem irresponsible at all. In fact it seems pretty conservative. I keep saying the Mediterranean because of the learning opportunities for her there. Sorry but the Caribbean isn’t all that interesting. Beautiful and awesome blah blah but …
I asked how to learn. I took a course. I bought a day sailor. I sailed a bunch. I’ll buy a better boat so we can camp out too soon. I said I would do more courses. I asked where was best. I planned to do them so I can charter. I said we where Considering a short live aboard situation. This seems legit to me. I don’t talk **** and I ain’t scared. No offense intended to all those good people but sailing isn’t all that hard when it’s easy! I said id like to do easy stuff too not round Cape Horn backwards! So yeah a guy posted some easy questions in a forum for sailing about financial situations with sailboats and got trolled by a boomer? Wtf man?
Is sailing scary? Kinda. Do people do stupid **** and it goes bad on them? Yeah. Is it unreasonable to think you can do it in a kinda responsible way? Probably. Otherwise no one would do it. I swear the people I meet that do are by no means genius or honesty anything other than ballsy enough to do it. Seriously I know about the sea side transit crowd. Nevermind I keep saying I want enough information to research it in ernest. **** man.