New or Pre-Loved: Which Is Better?

[sailorboy1]

Buy used. You can do a lot of work ($) to it that you don't get back when you decide to sell it. But, that "lost" money is still less that what you would lose on a new boat when you sell it. But really now, if you have the $ to buy new and ask such a question you probably fall into the new boat buyer world because it is new!

[beau]

I wanted a liveaboard/cruiser.
Very few new boats are built to do that, most are designed with the maximum number of bunks and toilets which are not needed for two people living aboard. Also the power supply/batterys etc and the refrigerator are always very small.

I have always found the highest cost is fitting out the boat, the hull and deck are the cheapest part.

In Australia and I think most warm water areas, the multihull has a very high resale value compared to Mono's.

I had my boat professionaly built in Aluminium (a 40ft trimaran) and I fitted it out to my liveaboard/cruising specifications.
We have one double and one single bunk, medium size fridge AND freezer, A Large shower and separate toilet. A gas stove top and oven/microwave. 600amp/hrs batteries plus 2 kva generator. An Airconditioner and all in 40ft that has a draft of 10 inches. Next is to set up the watermaker.
It is setup as a motor sailor with GPS/autopilot etc
You cannot possibly buy this setup in a production boat.
All up cost USD$120,000

[Glenn C]

on depreciation, one rule of thumb used for cats in oz is about 5% per year for about 8- 10 years, then stabelize at about 1/2 new price....but as everyone has said there are heaps of variables to this. We are considering anew boat ourselves, but semi custom, and intending to keep the boat around 8-10 years, so are prepared to wear the depreciation over that time period. I guess inflation works in the direction of taking away some of the depreciation pain? when it finally comes to sell?

[Kicha]

I am in two minds by second hand or new? I am looking at cats mid 40 foot range, looked at new in South Africa for 400k and a Kelsall 46 for 350k in Paru. All my serching for a good second hand cat on the web is still in the 300 to 500k range. I would like to by new and give the boat the name that we want? I am also looking at the new Spirited 48 to build in Asia possibly if anyone knows any builders?

[captain58sailin]

Rubybishop,
I have read yours and the others posts with interest. What I can tell you from my experience as follows. All the vessels I have owned were used, after the first five or so I got a lot better at selecting what I wanted and getting it for a reduced price for a good value. I have operated several brand new out of the box vessels (I run boats for a living). What I have experienced is from 3 to 8 years old, you are getting a vessel at its optimum, the sole proviso being that the previous owner had an interest in making the vessel better and ironing out the kinks. Usually by the 3rd year most of the new vessel kinks have been worked out, depending on the complexity of the systems. After the 8th year you are starting to get some system break downs, which are not huge if the vessel has been well maintained. Of course the sellers of these vessels would all have you believe that the boat was kept in pristine condition all of the time. You should be able to expect that you can get 10 years of good use from these vessels with the least amount of refitting. Obviously that is not an absolute, but the odds are in your favor. After a vessel is 10 to 20 years old, the price is going to stabilize somewhat. So if you buy a 3 year old vessel that is well equipped most of the devaluation has been absorbed by the PO, the systems are still in good shape and when you go to sell it at 13 years old, it will be at the better end of the resale scale from 10-20 year olds. You will not get very much return on value with regards to upgrades, what you will get is the customers that are more willing to buy your used vessel than the guy who has done little to up grade his vessel, and you can ask for a bit more, but not enough to offset the outlay. You can figure that no matter how much labor you personally invest, it is worth almost zero; you work on the boat because you love it or you love the boat. Think of it like raising children. You can begin your quest by listing all of the things that you would find attractive on your vessel and start looking for a 3 to 8 year old vessel that all ready has this equipment on board. As far as resale value goes, it depends on your market area, if you are mainly in the Caribbean the best sellers are the Cats. If you are going to be on the west coast, the monos carry the day. Spend some time on both and as many different boats as you are able, so that you can learn what you don't want, and what you do. All the best on your journey.

[captain58sailin]

Sorry

[Talbot]

My next boat will be pre-owned - I cant afford a new one!

[Québec 1]

Good discussion,

My First choice: Getting a new boat built by a private boat builder is probably the most satisfying and economical manner in which to get what you really want.

My Second choice: Get a (5 year old) production boat that has everything imaginable on it and bargain the price and wait till its as close to a steal as you can imagine...even then it won't be cheap...you will have to dish out real cash. Good deals are not cheap...they are a good deal.

My Third choice: Get a 20 year old boat that has been sailed every year for between 30 to 90 days a year..usually found up north. You would be surprised what you can find around Christmas every year...This 2009 Christmas should be a real good time to get such a bargain.
My 2 cents worth!
Q1

[ViribusUnitis]

I prefer used.

But not because of the money.

With used, I don't mind taking it apart. I don't feel like I'm scrafising a virgin when I start pulling things apart. Much of the fun of car, and boat ownership is pulling things apart to "fix" it. (fixing has nothing to do with it.)

[RubyBishop]

It seems to me as there are two groups, both passionate and takes pride in their craft, but certainly have two completely different views:

There are those who love taking on a challenge and get pleasure out restoring old to new. Will elbow their boat/project to suite themselves. They have a confidence and are handy with the spanner, and use this talent to save a dinero by buying cheap and doing up [to various degrees].

Then the other group, which I have to say I am closer to. They like ‘new’, if something need to be fixed – it’s a hassle. Most probably a little impatient [when they buy they want to sail, and not waste time in doing it up]. They are not as mechanical or handy and therefore they seek confidence from buying new and from a Dealer that will standby their product.

[RubyBishop]

Originally Posted by captain58sailin

Rubybishop,
What I have experienced is from 3 to 8 years old, you are getting a vessel at its optimum, the sole proviso being that the previous owner had an interest in making the vessel better and ironing out the kinks. Usually by the 3rd year most of the new vessel kinks have been worked out, depending on the complexity of the systems. After the 8th year you are starting to get some system break downs, which are not huge if the vessel has been well maintained.
You should be able to expect that you can get 10 years of good use from these vessels with the least amount of refitting. Obviously that is not an absolute, but the odds are in your favor. After a vessel is 10 to 20 years old, the price is going to stabilize somewhat. So if you buy a 3 year old vessel that is well equipped most of the devaluation has been absorbed by the PO, the systems are still in good shape and when you go to sell it at 13 years old, it will be at the better end of the resale scale from 10-20 year olds. You will not get very much return on value with regards to upgrades, what you will get is the customers that are more willing to buy your used vessel than the guy who has done little to up grade his vessel, and you can ask for a bit more, but not enough to offset the outlay. You can figure that no matter how much labor you personally invest, it is worth almost zero; you work on the boat because you love it or you love the boat. .

This is excellent stuff - exactly the 'rule of thumb' info I am after
. . . thanks

[RubyBishop]

Originally Posted by Glenn C

on depreciation, one rule of thumb used for cats in oz is about 5% per year for about 8- 10 years, then stabelize at about 1/2 new price....but as everyone has said there are heaps of variables to this. We are considering anew boat ourselves, but semi custom, and intending to keep the boat around 8-10 years, so are prepared to wear the depreciation over that time period. I guess inflation works in the direction of taking away some of the depreciation pain? when it finally comes to sell?

Well I am from the land of oz, this is a good guide