Is there really a buyer's shortage?

[barnakiel]

This is also my observation: sellers who added / modified their craft, especially if at a considerable cost, may be asking higher than regular prices.

The extreme case is one offs and customs that are priced at the cost of the builders/owners actual spending rather than at realistic (e.g. replacement) value.

b.

[jm21]

Originally Posted by Randyonr3

something that you'll have to learn.. there's a seat built for every ass out there, its just putting the two together..
Sold My 57 chevy Nomad a couple years ago.. Lot of people didnt like the paxton blower I put on it and said I destroyed the car by changing the drivetrain, some said they didnt like the paint scheme.. but for every person bitching about what I had done, there were two or three that fell in love with it.. lot of people wanted it and said I was asking to much..
ended up selling it "ON-LINE" to a guy in China, for the price I was asking.. Then I heard people bitching about me sending it out of the country.. And then I realized, some people just like to Bitch..

Something I've always stood by, and still do today..
If you cant run with the big dogs, get your butt back up on the porch..

And if you dont like whats out there to chose from, build it yourself.
And if the price is to high, get a second job.

We are talking about boats that have been sitting for sometimes years without much interest expressed at all.

If you have a $25k cutter and you spend $13k converting it to a sloop, and a sloop in similar condition would sell for $27k, you should not expect to sell your converted cutter for $35k. The chances of you finding someone who absolutely has to have that model of boat, but always hated that it was a cutter instead of a sloop, and is willing to pay top dollar....is very small. People looking at budget boats are usually not that dreamy.

Starting to look at boats again, I have seen some of the exact same boats with the exact same ad and exact same asking price as 6-7 years ago when I bought my last boat. That seems to me to indicate either they don't want to sell the boat or they are way off target. It would not seem to indicate that they just haven't found the right fit.

[Chattcatdaddy]

Originally Posted by Maine Sail

The ONLY shortage is a shortage of WELL MAINTAINED boats. Always has been and I assume always will be.

Meanwhile my buddy George lists his boat, not expecting to sell it quickly due to the market, and it is sold in 6 days at asking price. Why? SPOTLESS and in true "sailaway" condition.

Very true from my experience as well. I seen a lot of poorly mainatined boats in my search. Bad decks, rigging, sails, you name it and I came across it at least once. Not to mention the dirty interiors and mold/mildew issues in the interior. A little elbow grease could have gone a long way.

When I inspected my Pearson Ariel it was in sailaway condition and spotless and well maintained. I went thru it for a few hours and then strated negotations. Seller would not take anything less than the listed/asking price and so thats what I paid the man and worth every penny. In fact I think I stole it for that price.

Lots of dillusional sellers and buyers out there in this market.

[doug1957]

My wife and I recently bought a boat. We started with a budget of $x and eventually realized we could be looking at a lot of projects for a long time. We went to $2x our original budget, and while the boats were in sail away condition, there were definitely fewer of them.

We were also lucky that the PO put the "improvements" where it counts. A recent repower on a 1980 engine and he didn't raise the price vs. the other similar models without a repower. Helped to sell us.

[Randyonr3]

Originally Posted by jm21

We are talking about boats that have been sitting for sometimes years without much interest expressed at all.

If you have a $25k cutter and you spend $13k converting it to a sloop, and a sloop in similar condition would sell for $27k, you should not expect to sell your converted cutter for $35k. The chances of you finding someone who absolutely has to have that model of boat, but always hated that it was a cutter instead of a sloop, and is willing to pay top dollar....is very small. People looking at budget boats are usually not that dreamy.

Dont understand the cutter to a sloop idea.. you just pull the staysail stay and you're there.. even if it had a bowsprit and the forestay was pulled back , it a few hours work, not 13k..
Ours is a sloop, rigged cutter with a quick reliese on the staysail ..
You might want to explain the mod on the boat, as it might be well worth what the inprovement he did was..

[Celestialsailor]

I think it might have been a sloop with an inner forestay that was removed. If it was a "true" cutter, the mast would be almost in the center of the boat as opposed to 2/3 of the way forward, as a sloop is. A cutter without an staysl would not balance out very well. So tell us about this conversion for $13k.

[barnakiel]

Ad Celestialsailor:

This is what we get to believe when one looks at the modern ones. However, historically, many pilot boats were rigger cutter - the fore sail on a bowsprit; then the mast is actually pretty forwardish.

So, much as I agree this centralized mast location may be the case with some modern boats, historically, on classic boats, the mast may very well be sitting 'forward' of what we believe to be the 'proper cutter' position!

Vide:

http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:A...b6spld8b3p7gf9


b.

[Celestialsailor]

Thats right...A bowsprit moves the center of effort forward. If you measured from the front of the sprit to the stern, the mast would be about 1/2 way. A cutter was designed to have many variations of sail plan for reducing sail but eliminating a stysl is not one of them.

[deckofficer]

Right now I think the brokers need to shoulder some of the blame. They get the seller's expectations high on a price that is not supported by either loan officers (if you need a loan to buy it) or the industry's price guides such as NADA. Car dealers are the same way except when a buyer comes in, has done his research, likes the car, and offers a split between low and high book, the deal is done.

Good example is the popular and well built PDQ 36. For a nicely equipped 2002, the brokers are asking $150K to $175K all day long. NADA reflects the current value as $91,635 low retail, $103,615 as medium retail. Not even close. Do you think more boats might change hands if the brokers got realistic in their asking price? This sure supports one poster's comment to offer only 60% of asking.

1995 MacGregor MACGREGOR 65/CT - 65'
$125,535~$140,220

1994 Prout Catamarans USA SNOWGOOSE ELITE/CT-IB - 37'
$56,615 low retail, medium retail $64,045
The above I outfitted with all the normal cruising items, i.e 6 KW diesel gen, water maker, AP, etc.
Get the idea boat brokers live on another planet.

[Capt Phil]

Originally Posted by deckofficer

Right now I think the brokers need to shoulder some of the blame. They get the seller's expectations high on a price that is not supported by either loan officers (if you need a loan to buy it) or the industry's price guides such as NADA. Car dealers are the same way except when a buyer comes in, has done his research, likes the car, and offers a split between low and high book, the deal is done.

Good example is the popular and well built PDQ 36. For a nicely equipped 2002, the brokers are asking $150K to $175K all day long. NADA reflects the current value as $91,635 low retail, $103,615 as medium retail. Not even close. Do you think more boats might change hands if the brokers got realistic in their asking price?

Very correct observation IMO, DO... Brokers are their own worst enemies and have really given the boat brokerage business a bad name. Thank goodness the recent poor economy has weeded out some of the more blatantly ignorant and dishonest ones.
I worked with many on the west coast for a number of years in my delivery business and used shudder at the stories I heard them swap about how they screwed this client or that client both selling and buying.
If the buyer does his or her due diligence and becomes informed about the market, comparable condition and equipment of similar vessels, they are in a much stronger position to negotiate or walk on deal.
I have a couple of horror stories that I won't repeat here of friends who brokers tried to take advantage of and were just plain downright dishonest. I was asked to get involved in the middle of both deals, one of which ended up in court. The judge was very hard on the broker and his agency. When word got around it did change some behaviors but not all. Capt Phil

[deckofficer]

2006 Corsair Marine 28 AFT-COCKPIT/SL - 28'
$47,615 $54,365. My brother's boat. Broker was asking $105K with trailer, after 18 months, he got it. Explains why they ask for the moon, sometimes they get it for the simple reason someone wanted the last USA built boat.

[barnakiel]

Originally Posted by Celestialsailor

Thats right...A bowsprit moves the center of effort forward. If you measured from the front of the sprit to the stern, the mast would be about 1/2 way. A cutter was designed to have many variations of sail plan for reducing sail but eliminating a stysl is not one of them.

Holy bucket!

Mate, you opened my eyes to this. Exactly as you said half way between the bowsprit and stern in a classic boat and halfway between the stem and stern in a modern design. Same same.

One can live long and yet learn new things every day!

barnie

[Randyonr3]

Im wondering where the 13K was spent

[Celestialsailor]

Originally Posted by Randyonr3

Im wondering where the 13K was spent

You'll notice we haven't received an answer after 3 requests.

[David_Old_Jersey]

Originally Posted by Celestialsailor

You'll notice we haven't received an answer after 3 requests.

Or that he hasn't visited CF since his last post - so hasn't read any of the 3 "requests"..........100 odd posts in 3 years of membership probably means he does have better things to do, at least sometimes .

FWIW, my reading of his post was that it was illustrative not litteral.