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Old 27-07-2017, 16:53   #31
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Re: Is teaching boat skills on my boat illegal without a 6-pack?

I do like the Tom Sawyer approach of teaching people how to polish your boat and change the oil.
I may offer a free mainsail cleaning seminar soon, the local cleaner was put out of business by the drought.
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Old 27-07-2017, 17:39   #32
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Re: Is teaching boat skills on my boat illegal without a 6-pack?

Most sailing schools use boats without motors; the license is a OUPV (the key word being power); no license for smaller sailboats with no aux...
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Old 27-07-2017, 18:22   #33
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Re: Is teaching boat skills on my boat illegal without a 6-pack?

What is going on here ?

If you are operating a boat for hire or compensation, in the U.S.A. you need a U.S.C.G. Captains license. 6 pack requires 360 days documented sea time. The 100 ton required 720 days. Plus the written test, etc.

I know skippers who have their own vessels, no lic. of any kind, who take out charters, and they put down the U.S.C.G Licensed captains, like myself.

They are operating illegally, but it does not seem to bother them. I just let it slide.

What I do not understand , if they qualify to take the U.S.C.G. Capt license test, what the heck is their problem. If you have the sea time, and the knowledge , and experience , apply and sit for your exam.

Many moons back , I began structured sailing lessons and then eventually started working for a sailing club that was no nonsense and very ridged on all aspects of sailing, navigation, and seamanship.

Back then none of us instructors were licensed captains, In 1982, that all came to an end, when the owner told us we needed to get certified or leave.

Actually, we were all for it. I had been instructing, taking out charters, teaching coastal piloting, etc. But, when I turned in my sea time for my 720 days, I had to note it as crew. The time was verified on the sailing clubs computers. That time was acquired over a 5 year period.

All of us instructors attended a U.S.C.G Lic. prep school. We thought we knew our stuff, but we learned so much more in that class. We were on the edge of our seats assimilating all of this information, and also learned easy methods of transferring that knowledge to our students, plus becoming much more professional .

For me, this was not a mickey mouse venture for the hell of it. My responsibility was to impart all of the knowledge that I had in all aspects of sailing and power boating and seaman ship to our members.

Also, I did not take that class just so I could pass the test, I wanted to learn as much as I possibly could and use it .

I eventually held a U.S.C.G Captains License starting in 1982, up to and including my 5th issue....all 100 tons. That is renewals every 5 years. My last renewal ( the 5th) issue was 100 ton, but on the front of the certificate it says 'see reverse' I turned it over and the 100 ton was boosted to 500 tons near coastal. Never even been on a ship that size, but there it was.

Not everyone thinks alike. They want the short cut and the easy way or they want follow procedures. All up to the individual.

My attitude on procedures also comes from nearly 40 years of flying. After vietnam, I was able to use the GI BILL ( like college ) . Stared lessons in 1967. ( Over 2.5 year time frame ) I paid for my private, but after that, Uncle Sam paid 90 % of my commercial, instrument, flight instructor and multi engine ratings. That resulted in two parallel careers as a CFI, charter pilot and corporate pilot, and the last 17 years as an Instructor Pilot flying fighters for Air Combat U.S.A.

I absolutely loved both the sailing and the flying. Great life it was.

I have found that life goes along pretty well when you follow procedures .

Others are totally free to find ways to circumvent the established paths and that is totally up to them. But if a person qualifies, why not go for that 6 pack, or even 100 ton ? Never can tell where life may lead you .
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Old 28-07-2017, 09:52   #34
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Re: Is teaching boat skills on my boat illegal without a 6-pack?

Heh BVI, really enjoyed your post. I have the same way of thinking as you do. Gain knowledge, put the time in, pay the price, learn, and grow.

To the original poster I would like to say something. Do you remember those two boys, teenagers, who went missing off the coast of Florida last year? I just read on the Internet yesterday that one family is suing the other family because of the loss of their son. When you operate a business without the proper licensing you are exposing yourself to legal attacks. It ain't the same world it was 50 years ago. If someone gets hurt on the boat they can sue you. They can go after your wages, they can go after your home, they can go after your retirement money. Is it worth it to not have a license ? Be smart.
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Old 28-07-2017, 10:06   #35
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Re: Is teaching boat skills on my boat illegal without a 6-pack?

The Coast Guard Axillary or the Power Squadron does it for free as far as classroom instruction.

The Boy Scout teach knots. :-)
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Old 29-07-2017, 21:34   #36
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Re: Is teaching boat skills on my boat illegal without a 6-pack?

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Originally Posted by alansmith View Post
Heh BVI, really enjoyed your post. I have the same way of thinking as you do. Gain knowledge, put the time in, pay the price, learn, and grow.

To the original poster I would like to say something. Do you remember those two boys, teenagers, who went missing off the coast of Florida last year? I just read on the Internet yesterday that one family is suing the other family because of the loss of their son. When you operate a business without the proper licensing you are exposing yourself to legal attacks. It ain't the same world it was 50 years ago. If someone gets hurt on the boat they can sue you. They can go after your wages, they can go after your home, they can go after your retirement money. Is it worth it to not have a license ? Be smart.
They would have sued regardless of licensing or business entity. Having a license doesn't prevent you from being sued.

Insurance is what protects you from the results of being sued and your insurance company may require licensing of some sort.
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Old 31-07-2017, 05:32   #37
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Re: Is teaching boat skills on my boat illegal without a 6-pack?

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...they can go after your retirement money.
Actually, there are significant limits on the extent to which they can go after your retirement money. Most of the time, money in IRAs and 401Ks is protected from lawsuits.
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Old 31-07-2017, 07:50   #38
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Re: Is teaching boat skills on my boat illegal without a 6-pack?

Understand your point. But doing business without proper licensing or credential is half arsed and makes a juicy medium rare steak for a young lawyer to feast upon. I am sure u can concede the point that Americans are one of the most litigacious nations in the world. Those two Florida teenagers who disappeared on their fishing skiff last year....buddies... now in lawsuit due to loss of life. I'm not saying a license will stop a lawsuit. I am saying that operating without a license is putting yourself in harm's way in multiple ways. You are operating a business without your local municipality's rubber stamp. The city, for example, would not want a sex toy shop opened next door to the middle school. You are most likely avoiding taxation (and you know the gov't hates competition).

One more thing to consider. Putting yourself in harms way is not only risky it can be expensive. Even the threat of a lawsuit can involve considerable amount of money to protect yourself. Hiring an attorney to investigate your options can easilyinvolve 5-10 K.
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Old 31-07-2017, 09:54   #39
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Re: Is teaching boat skills on my boat illegal without a 6-pack?

don-
I think that varies by state. And since a judgment typically is good for 20 years, and can be renewed typically for 20 more...sooner or later there are mandatory distributions from most retirement assets, so those could be seized on distribution, I think.
But hey, becoming judgment proof and hiding your assets...or, learning how to discover and seize assets...that's a whole other topic.
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Old 01-08-2017, 18:26   #40
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Re: Is teaching boat skills on my boat illegal without a 6-pack?

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Originally Posted by lonesoldier0408 View Post
Going to court, is like going to Vegas, they put on a show, to make it look like you could win. Then, they rape the non-prevailing party, to cover golf on Wednesday, with the Judge they bought.! [emoji23][emoji23][emoji23][emoji23]
... and dealing with that DOES require a 6 pack (or 2, or 3)

Aarrrgh!
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Old 31-10-2017, 18:16   #41
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Re: Is teaching boat skills on my boat illegal without a 6-pack?

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Hi all-



As I consider ways to make my boat habit less expensive- It occurs to me that there are a lot of skills any of us might have that others want to acquire. Some of these are dockside- e.g. marine electrical, diesel maintenance, fiberglass, etc. Others are best acquired afloat- navigation, sail-handling, salt-water fishing, etc. Where is the line between captaining a boat for hire (requires 6-pack license or more) and instruction which can be contracted with willing participants?



Fred


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Old 15-11-2017, 20:38   #42
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Re: Is teaching boat skills on my boat illegal without a 6-pack?



So long a silver does not cross the palm your legal.
The OP's problem? He wants to make money to counter the costs of boat ownership. So the OP is expecting silver to cross his palm.

Id be wary of the suggestion it is ok to instruct so long as you don't leave the dock. You might be OK. The problem will be how the boat is status is interoperated. laid up? or operational?.



It's much easier just to get the required certificate.

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Old 15-11-2017, 23:32   #43
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Re: Is teaching boat skills on my boat illegal without a 6-pack?

If they pay and the boat leaves the slip: No question, you need a license

If they pay and the boat stays in the slip: You are in a gray area but are probably better off with a license.

The problem is until there is an accident and it goes to court, you won't know for sure and even then two exactly the same cases go to court, they may come up with different answers.

Insurance and Marina: Tell them exactly what you are doing up front and choose your course accordingly.
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Old 16-11-2017, 03:42   #44
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Re: Is teaching boat skills on my boat illegal without a 6-pack?

Not sure about illegal, but it would be wrong to not provide at least a twelve pack. Hopefully IPA or something interesting.
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