Insurance requiring second adult

[Muaddib1116]

The insurance coverage that my agent has found for me to cover me when I leave the US and sail the Caribbean is requiring that I can only operate my boat if there is another adult on board over the age of 21, because of the size of my boat. Is this a common requirement? It's certainly not my plan to single hand, but there are definitely times where I may have to operate solo, even if it's just to get off anchor to go to a diesel dock, and this will be a huge hurdle logistically for how I was intending to operate.

[rslifkin]

It strikes me as a logical requirement from the insurance company's perspective to reduce risk.



In my mind, it would be worth talking to them to see if they'd be willing to amend the requirement to only require the second person on moves longer than X distance or Y time to permit a short distance solo move in between longer passages.

[Knotical]

Hmm, how will they verify?

(Not asking you to disregard their recommendation but thinking logistically)

[Shrew]

Originally Posted by Knotical

Hmm, how will they verify?

(Not asking you to disregard their recommendation but thinking logistically)

It has more to do with their ability to deny a claim. If they request a copy of an incident report and it indicates that the vessel was being single-handed it could justify their denial.

[S/V Illusion]

What underwriter asks for this?

It seems there have been a few odd insurance questions lately which don’t seem to be common among marine underwriters. Are people simply price shopping the cheapest insurance?

[Shrew]

Originally Posted by S/V Illusion

What underwriter asks for this?

It seems there have been a few odd insurance questions lately which don’t seem to be common among marine underwriters. Are people simply price shopping the cheapest insurance?

Both my wife and I are always listed as operators on our insurance. We typically have to provide the number of years of experience for each of us as well. We've always had policies written this way, so we've never been asked. But then we're only 39 feet.

[S/V Illusion]

Originally Posted by Shrew

Both my wife and I are always listed as operators on our insurance. We typically have to provide the number of years of experience for each of us as well. We've always had policies written this way, so we've never been asked. But then we're only 39 feet.

This (“listed as operators”) sounds more like auto insurance policy jargon.

[GRIT]

We had a similar restriction on our boat, a 50 foot catamaran. It's also a "named operator only" policy. Meaning they want to know who's in control, and what experience they have with a 50 foot cat.

Our broker suggested I make a video of myself sailing the boat single handed, to show that I could. I upped the ante on that video by making a video of me raising the sails, then the anchor, sailing to another location, and setting the anchor, all under sail. No engine use whatsoever. It really was a "single handed" video, as I had to hold my phone in one hand, whilst operating the boat. Sails up, anchor up, etc...

It should be said that we built our boat from scratch, with the intent that it could be easily sailed, single handed; and that I have many thousands of miles experience doing just that.

The insurance company removed the requirement for having two aboard. Assuming I can keep a good watch, which means I keep my trips less than 24-36 hours long. If you have to sleep, you're not keeping a good watch.

I don't know if this will work for you, but with the help of my broker (Susan, susan@marineinsurance.cc) it worked for me.

Cheers, and good luck.

Paul.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by Knotical

Hmm, how will they verify?

(Not asking you to disregard their recommendation but thinking logistically)

When they ask for the accident report and it lists you as the only occupant of the boat, it's pretty easy to verify.

This isn't a legal requirement where the "insurance police" will track you and pull you over as soon as you weigh anchor.

This is a Contractual requirement. If you fail to live up to your end of the Contract, they are no longer required to pay for the associated claim.

[BlueH2Obound]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

When they ask for the accident report and it lists you as the only occupant of the boat, it's pretty easy to verify.

This isn't a legal requirement where the "insurance police" will track you and pull you over as soon as you weigh anchor.

This is a Contractual requirement. If you fail to live up to your end of the Contract, they are no longer required to pay for the associated claim.

Yup, this would be an insurance policy the underwriters would just LOVE to bind! Knowing that a person always single hands, but paying for a policy that requires two adults on boat . . . . they'd know from the start that they'd never have to pay off on an underway accident claim!

[Bill O]

Originally Posted by GRIT

We had a similar restriction on our boat, a 50 foot catamaran. It's also a "named operator only" policy. Meaning they want to know who's in control, and what experience they have with a 50 foot cat.

Our broker suggested I make a video of myself sailing the boat single handed, to show that I could. I upped the ante on that video by making a video of me raising the sails, then the anchor, sailing to another location, and setting the anchor, all under sail. No engine use whatsoever. It really was a "single handed" video, as I had to hold my phone in one hand, whilst operating the boat. Sails up, anchor up, etc...

Paul,
Gutsy move to send a solo sailing video to your insurance company when they already indicated it was a restriction. Could have gone south in many ways after they have your volunteered evidence in their possession defying they policy rules. Glad it worked for you.

Like yourself there are many fully capable of solo sailing so any restrictions should be based on experience on a specific sized vessel and not just a general rule.

[GRIT]

Originally Posted by Bill O

Paul,
Gutsy move to send a solo sailing video to your insurance company when they already indicated it was a restriction. Could have gone south in many ways after they have your volunteered evidence in their possession defying they policy rules. Glad it worked for you.

Like yourself there are many fully capable of solo sailing so any restrictions should be based on experience on a specific sized vessel and not just a general rule.

Thanks Bill.

But being able to single hand the boat was a requirement of mine, to accept anyone's contract. We simply can't do what we're doing without me being able to move the boat single handed. If they rejected the modification to the contract, we'd have pulled out altogether.

The demonstration video was a 30 minute video, start to finish, I only sailed a short distance, to make a point.

Thanks for your comment.

Cheers.
Paul.

[Knotical]

Thanks, Shrew and valhalla360

This kind of language can sometimes be restrictive in our sailing ventures especially when you consider there will definitely be a time when you have to single hand - what if there are 2 people on board but one has fallen ill? (There are numerous such scenarios)

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by Bill O

Like yourself there are many fully capable of solo sailing so any restrictions should be based on experience on a specific sized vessel and not just a general rule.

How exactly does the insurance actuary factor in solo sailors when they are quite rare and may have no idea what the risks are in solo sailing other than on the face it's obviously less redundant that having multiple capable crew.

It's not a big market, so there is little reason to pander to them.

Honestly wonder, if the video actually was actually looked at. If there's ever a claim, I wouldn't be surprised if someone in the chain of command gets a good butt chewing for accepting it (assuming you have it in writing, they would likely be forced to pay the claim).

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by Knotical

what if there are 2 people on board but one has fallen ill? (There are numerous such scenarios)

Force Majeure.

You likely would have to establish that you were making a reasonable attempt to comply.

So upon getting under way, you had 2 capable crew and only after starting did one of the crew become disabled.

There would likely also be an understanding that you would make safe port as soon as reasonably possible. So if you are 12hr into a 3 week voyage, you can't just keep going and hope for the best.