Insurance canaries to caribbean

[davethedog]

Just looking at changing the current boat to then sail across the Atlantic next November (traditional ARC route but not as part of the ARC) and been getting insurance quotes.

So, the boat we want is year 1990 and value about 140K GBP, 2 of us sailing, both experienced and sailed UK to Canaries on our own etc.

So, just had one quote come back at almost £3000 for the year, and will need a full out of water survey. Is this high? Currently we are paying about £800 GBP for the year to sail the Canaries and the Azores and Madiera etc

Any recommendations for insurance companies?

Thanks

[boatman61]

Hull insurance is like that for coverage crossing oceans...
Mine covered me to 400nm from land solo but if I wanted all the way across it doubled..
So I made sure I did not sink in the middle bit..

Oh.. Pantaenius UK in Plymouth.

[Paul L]

That is 2% of the hull value. It is a fair price for offshore insurance as long as it is a solid policy without unreasonable exceptions and backed by a real underwriter.

[more]

Originally Posted by davethedog

Just looking at changing the current boat to then sail across the Atlantic next November (traditional ARC route but not as part of the ARC) and been getting insurance quotes.

So, the boat we want is year 1990 and value about 140K GBP, 2 of us sailing, both experienced and sailed UK to Canaries on our own etc.

So, just had one quote come back at almost £3000 for the year, and will need a full out of water survey. Is this high? Currently we are paying about £800 GBP for the year to sail the Canaries and the Azores and Madiera etc

Any recommendations for insurance companies?

Thanks

what boat

[bobnlesley]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Hull insurance is like that for coverage crossing oceans...
Mine covered me to 400nm from land solo but if I wanted all the way across it doubled..
So I made sure I did not sink in the middle bit..

Oh.. Pantaenius UK in Plymouth.

I'd thought that, when our insurance more than doubled for the Atlantic crossing - I thought that was fair enough - but it stayed at that same level once we'd got there and were island/coast hopping through the Caribbean & USA. Word from Pantaenius being "it'll only drop again once you return to UK waters (whatsit to Brest) or go back through the Gibraltar Straits."

My own opinion was it's more of a 'what the market will stand' increase; it's always intrigued me that European yachts get charged more when they're in the US/Caribbean rather than home waters, while North American yachts get a cost hike when they go to Europe; how can both sides be the higher risk?

[moseriw]

No, Dave, far too expensive. Faced the same problem with THE GERMAN INSURANCE which charges 1500€ for european waters and up to 6000 € for some world coverages. And of course this is out of discussion.


But there is a wordlwide coverage for my 1981 Vagabond 47 for around 1500€ from kundenservice@dr-walter.com

And yes, a survey is required and I think this is OK and even good for you. I will do a specialized rigg survey too . for my sake.

Think you should contact them.
The main problem: "THE INSURANCE" is said to pay everything whatever happens and though they pay 40% for incredible stupidity one has to pay with the fees.

I think I do not want the insurance company to pay for my "wanton negligence" because if I am to stupid to sail a boat I should not be allowed to do so.

[Paul L]

Originally Posted by moseriw

No, Dave, far too expensive. Faced the same problem with THE GERMAN INSURANCE which charges 1500€ for european waters and up to 6000 € for some world coverages. And of course this is out of discussion.


But there is a wordlwide coverage for my 1981 Vagabond 47 for around 1500€ from kundenservice@dr-walter.com

And yes, a survey is required and I think this is OK and even good for you. I will do a specialized rigg survey too . for my sake.

Think you should contact them.
The main problem: "THE INSURANCE" is said to pay everything whatever happens and though they pay 40% for incredible stupidity one has to pay with the fees.

I think I do not want the insurance company to pay for my "wanton negligence" because if I am to stupid to sail a boat I should not be allowed to do so.

I went to the DRWALTER site and didn't see any yacht insurance listed. Who is the underwriter for the low cost policy you got and what were the navigation limits?

[moseriw]

pay for my "wanton negligence"


Arises the question about negligence itself because sometimes it's definition is set to prevent insurances to pay. i.E. you have two locks on your door (which one can open in a second with his foot) but you only use one = insurance will not pay due to "wanton negligence".

As I say: we are living in an unjustiness and unlawful community.

[Paul L]

Originally Posted by moseriw

pay for my "wanton negligence"


Arises the question about negligence itself because sometimes it's definition is set to prevent insurances to pay. i.E. you have two locks on your door (which one can open in a second with his foot) but you only use one = insurance will not pay due to "wanton negligence".

As I say: we are living in an unjustiness and unlawful community.

Are you making this up, or was this actually a yacht insurance claim that was rejected?

[moseriw]

No Paul, I am not making it up but it is not related to yacht insurance but "household" insurance terms in Austria and yes, it happened here.

[Paul L]

Originally Posted by moseriw

No Paul, I am not making it up but it is not related to yacht insurance but "household" insurance terms in Austria and yes, it happened here.

So basically this story has nothing to do with yacht insurance.p it yacht claims If you use a reputable underwriter, yacht insurance is usually pretty forgiving of owner screwups, especially if the policy covers consequential damage.

[bobnlesley]

Originally Posted by Paul L

...If you use a reputable underwriter, yacht insurance is usually pretty forgiving of owner screw-ups...

From what I've seen over the years - though one never knows how accurately or truthfully the submitted claim forms were - I'd have to agree with that; pilot-error displays that go way beyond stupid, but the insurers (and ultimately all the other owners/insurers) still pick up the tab.

Does the yacht insurance industry (like auto-insurance) ever load or ultimately decline insurance cover to repeat claimants?

[Paul L]

Originally Posted by bobnlesley

From what I've seen over the years - though one never knows how accurately or truthfully the submitted claim forms were - I'd have to agree with that; pilot-error displays that go way beyond stupid, but the insurers (and ultimately all the other owners/insurers) still pick up the tab.

Does the yacht insurance industry (like auto-insurance) ever load or ultimately decline insurance cover to repeat claimants?

Every boat insurance application I've filled out has asked for claim history. The insurance companies aren't stupid

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by bobnlesley

I'd thought that, when our insurance more than doubled for the Atlantic crossing - I thought that was fair enough - but it stayed at that same level once we'd got there and were island/coast hopping through the Caribbean & USA. Word from Pantaenius being "it'll only drop again once you return to UK waters (whatsit to Brest) or go back through the Gibraltar Straits."

My own opinion was it's more of a 'what the market will stand' increase; it's always intrigued me that European yachts get charged more when they're in the US/Caribbean rather than home waters, while North American yachts get a cost hike when they go to Europe; how can both sides be the higher risk?

No.. mine was valid as I and the boat were in the Caribe when I insured her and they knew I would be soloing back to the EU...
So basically I was only uninsured for 1400nm to the Azores and maybe 100nm from there to the Algarve..

[moseriw]

Well I think that Pantaenius strategy is to lift off for super yachts and a gross insurance trade for charter companies and therefore increases the fees for us cruisers in a way that we can not afford them. I do not think that this is with the interrest of the founders of Pantaenius but a good way to kill the company - on the long run.

Better to have a million of people that pay reasonable amounts than a few thousands that drag my price level to ground zero.