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Old 13-06-2022, 05:54   #61
AJA
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Re: Insurance and accident free period

there should be a forum just to inform boaters of those aspects of boating
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Old 13-06-2022, 06:12   #62
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Re: Insurance and accident free period

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Originally Posted by pcmm View Post
Liability only insurance is getting harder and harder to find and now generally requires a survey anyway, so if you have to get a survey, you might as well get full coverage as the difference is not enough to save the $$. In my case I had liability only insurance for a while (I was refitting and my boat was constantly changing). My annual premium for Liability only was $576 CAD. This past spring my renewal came up and they ( and others I talked to) needed a survey!! Anyway the difference in liability only premiums and full coverage was an additional $200. Good value if you ask me for the additional coverage!

I'd agree for that price difference. I'd expect the difference to vary widely depending on the boat in question, how they assess your risk, location, etc.

For someone in a highly populated area, I'd think the liability risk is relatively high compared to the hull loss risk and you'll see a situation like yours. But for someone cruising remote areas, it's likely the other way around. Very little risk of you damaging someone else's stuff, but more risk of damage to your own boat.
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Old 13-06-2022, 07:19   #63
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Re: Insurance and accident free period

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Originally Posted by sailorboy1 View Post
I have owned boats for 13 years, a 39' and a 41'. In this period, which includes almost 6 years of full time on the boat, I have had no boat accidents and ZERO insurance claims.

So it really pisses me off that all the insurance companies seem to care about is whether I have had a claim in the last 3 years. What kind of measurement of being safe is just 3 years? I feel like I am paying for those people who have have had claims in the last 3-10 years.

I feel the same about car insurance. I have over 30 years of zero claims there and again all they care is the last 3 years.
SailorBoy, wow, many, many years without an accident or incident. Sounds like your good fortune is about to run out, lightening strikes, storm damage and whale allusions tend to even out eventually, or so would say the actuator.

As to claims history, each insurance company retains their own records of your claims with them, but almost all of them also share their data to third party claims history companies so that every insurance company knows your history.

One such database is the Claims Loss Underwriting Exchange, which is run by LexisNexis. Information that can be included in reports includes your name, your date of birth, your policy number, the claim number, the claim details, fault determination, the payout on the claim, the date of the loss, and other information may also be located on the record.

Most insurance companies will tend to review claims history within 6 to 10 years past to provide a gauge for assessment of risk categorization. Some will review further back.

If an applicant does not provide disclosure of a claim and the insurance company notes a claim in the shared history databases that will become a red flag and likely lead to a denial of policy, and of course, it can lead to a denial of a claim that may be made in the future during the policy coverage period.

Since people tend to have short term memories, many insurance companies will only ask about recent claim histories. "To the best of my recollection . . . becomes an issue as whether an application is fraudulent or just forgetful. In either case, a non-disclosure of a claim is an inaccuracy / untruth and places the policy in a tenuous position of being denied, of made void upon making a claim.

An insurance company is free to accept an underwriting of a risk or to not accept an underwriting based on their practice and policies. If they don't, just move on to another that may desire to underwrite. Sometimes one simply can't obtain an underwriting and one has to then incur the risk without any degree of policy protection or which has considerable limits to the risk exposure assignments.

It is a negotiation which has a great deal of specificity and complexity. Most people are rather clueless when it comes to understanding what is and what is not covered by standard policies.
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Old 14-06-2022, 15:35   #64
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Re: Insurance and accident free period

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Originally Posted by Mike OReilly View Post
Glad to post it again Chris. I'm fully with you about being data-driven,

Here is the collection of annual reports: https://www.uscgboating.org/statisti...statistics.php

And here is the database that includes all the data: https://bard.knightpoint.systems/Pub...e/Report1.aspx

It's not the most sophisticated database, but you can have hours of fun probing various categories and scenarios. I also just noticed the reports and database haven't included 2021 data yet. Hopefully soon...

Thanks for posting the links, again. Sorry, I was too lazy to go back and look for them.

Looking at the 2020 report it looks like they do their best but they know are missing a lot. Some data they intentionally don’t collect (storm damage to docked or moored vessels) and other data is not reported (estimate 93% of non-fatal, non-hospital admitted injuries were not captured). All in all, I don’t think what’s in the report is representative of insurer experience. Details below if interested.

1. “Non-Reportable” Boating Accidents - pages 10-11 contains a list of non-reportable events. Here are a couple big ones that are intentionally excluded.

“Property damage occurs or a person dies, is injured, or is missing as a result of a fire on shore or a pier that spreads to a vessel or vessels.”

“Property damage occurs to a docked or moored vessel or a person dies, is injured, or is missing from such a vessel as a result of storms, or unusual tidal or sea conditions; or when a vessel gets underway in those conditions in an attempt to rescue persons or vessels.”


2) Limitations on collection. Page 13

“It is recommended that any researcher focus on fatal data since the confidence of this data is very high. The Coast Guard works with state marine agencies, other federal agencies, and news media aggregating services to identify boating incidents. Despite best efforts to document incidents, the Coast Guard is only confident in its capture of deceased victims since fatal acci- dents undoubtedly involve state or government oversight, and garner more attention in the news media.

Data on non-fatal accidents have a much lower confidence level. Non-fatal accidents are se- verely under-reported because boaters are unaware of reporting requirements or are unwilling to report. A 2006 study, “Recent Research on Recreational Boating Accidents and the Contribu- tion of Boating Under the Influence,” suggest that 20% of hospital-admitted injuries were not captured, and upwards of 93% of non-fatal, non-hospital admitted injuries were not captured in the data collection on boating accidents. The study is posted on the Coast Guard’s website at http://www.uscgboating.org/library/b...dy_Final.pdf.”
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Old 14-06-2022, 15:44   #65
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Re: Insurance and accident free period

Yup and an old boat falls under mechanical failure. The odds kill its hull
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