I was going to buy a boat, but...

[irrelevant]

I've spent about 18 months learning... Did a little shopping... And that's when I hit the wall.

Bureaucracy.

I'm starting to wonder how anyone buys a boat. The endless layers of red tape, contradicting orders and threats from government at every turn... And the fees, tariffs, taxes... It never ends. How can one ever be sure they're done, or that it's been done correctly, or that they're not about to have everything confiscated and be throw in jail over yet another secret arbitrary and capricious policy used as a booby trap...

I'm a US Citizen. Born here. Lived in the State of Florida my entire life. Saw a boat in the EU I was interested in. Broker says I don't have to pay VAT because I'm not an EU resident... But upon doing some research, that's a lie... But, VAT research is shaky, because they seem to make it up as they go, with specific intent of stringing anyone up that they can...

Is buying a boat even possible anymore?

[SV DestinyAscen]

[Sav]

Originally Posted by irrelevant

Is buying a boat even possible anymore?

Just buy a boat in Florida.

I'm in Australia, all I did was put in a bid on eBay, and I got my yacht.

[roverhi]

If you take the boat out of the Euro Zone in a certain period of time, you won't have to pay the VAT which is 18% or so. Might try finding a US built boat in the States or a foreign boat that has been imported and paid the duty if you want a no head ache purchase. Even buying foreign it's not that big a thing just that you need to take it away from the country where purchased to avoid their tax and pay the US Duty and possibly State Sales Tax when you get it back to the States. Any broker worth his salt should be able to guide you through a purchase.

[valhalla360]

Just did it. There are a few hassles but nothing extraordinary.

Assuming you are a USA resident and you can take it out of the EU periodically, the broker was correct:
- You get 18 month temporary import to the EU customs area before tax is due.
- If you aren't on the boat the entire time, you can extend beyond that.
- If you take the boat out of the EU customs area for a day and bring it back, you get fresh 18months.
- You can always pay the VAT (usually around 20% depending on the country).

[irrelevant]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

Just did it. There are a few hassles but nothing extraordinary.

Assuming you are a USA resident and you can take it out of the EU periodically, the broker was correct:
- You get 18 month temporary import to the EU customs area before tax is due.
- If you aren't on the boat the entire time, you can extend beyond that.
- If you take the boat out of the EU customs area for a day and bring it back, you get fresh 18months.
- You can always pay the VAT (usually around 20% depending on the country).

I won't take it out periodically; I'll take it out immediately and permanently.

This is the problem. I get all this weirdly worded stuff I don't care about that leaves me wondering what strange unspoken strings are attached to the weird wording...

I want to buy the boat and GTFO of the Eurozone as fast as I can and never go back. I don't care about anything else, or all the strange wordplay that makes it impossible for me to tell if I can do this at all, or if I should just quit.

There is nothing in the Mediterranean, or north of it, that I can't find better elsewhere, or that could possibly be worth putting up with the government(s). Yeah, some interesting cultures... But, they're just not worth it. The Atlantic coast of Morocco is the only thing in the area that might, sorta, maybe interest me.

I just want to grab the boat and GTFO ASAP.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by irrelevant

I won't take it out periodically; I'll take it out immediately and permanently.

This is the problem. I get all this weirdly worded stuff I don't care about that leaves me wondering what strange unspoken strings are attached to the weird wording...

I want to buy the boat and GTFO of the Eurozone as fast as I can and never go back. I don't care about anything else, or all the strange wordplay that makes it impossible for me to tell if I can do this at all, or if I should just quit.

There is nothing in the Mediterranean, or north of it, that I can't find better elsewhere, or that could possibly be worth putting up with the government(s). Yeah, some interesting cultures... But, they're just not worth it. The Atlantic coast of Morocco is the only thing in the area that might, sorta, maybe interest me.

I just want to grab the boat and GTFO ASAP.

Then VAT is a non-issue if you are leaving. Nothing complicated. Most countries require you to pay import fees or other taxes if you permanently import a boat but if it's temporary there are typically ways to avoid it.

The "strangely worded" stuff is an attempt to be complete. If you don't understand the rules, you can run into problems when you break them.

I would expect far less red tape moving about Europe than other random countries. If you aren't ready to deal with officials and rules, traveling internationally by boat is probably not for you.

[irrelevant]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

Then VAT is a non-issue if you are leaving. Nothing complicated. Most countries require you to pay import fees or other taxes if you permanently import a boat but if it's temporary there are typically ways to avoid it.

Excellent.

Originally Posted by valhalla360

The "strangely worded" stuff is an attempt to be complete. If you don't understand the rules, you can run into problems when you break them.

Absolutely. The EU stuff seems to be never ending unknowable booby traps designed with malicious intent.

Originally Posted by valhalla360

I would expect far less red tape moving about Europe than other random countries. If you aren't ready to deal with officials and rules, traveling internationally by boat is probably not for you.

Of course, but as long as they can be known I'm fine. It's when everyone has a different story, and I can't help but break a law because they are unknowable, or the officials so corrupt that they just make it up as they go; which seems to be the case in Europe. Europe has little that interests me, so it's not worth putting up with the constant threat of never knowing what's going to be done to me next... It's hard to enjoy anything with that hanging over your head.

Thanks for the info.

[irrelevant]

Originally Posted by Sav

Just buy a boat in Florida.

Same boat. Beat to hell. Double the price.

Nope.

[alctel]

Oh man, if you are upset about the EU's laws and regulations (exempting you from VAT) you are going to get a horrible shock almost anywhere else

[irrelevant]

Originally Posted by alctel

Oh man, if you are upset about the EU's laws and regulations (exempting you from VAT) you are going to get a horrible shock almost anywhere else

Don't be a troll. I don't have a problem with them. I have a problem with them being unknowable with certainty and ever source I find contradicts... There's just nothing in Europe worth having that unknown hanging over my head. I'll grab my boat and get out as fast as I can before they throw me in prison, confiscate the boat, and demand that I pay 20% VAT anyway...

[nmuir]

I have not done a purchase exactly matching your situation - and other can likely help out more specifically - but I understand that not having the VAT on the export is the simple part, and taxes/duty on the import is where the compexity and $ start appearing. I was fine and after some research it all when well - after the import authorities got their pound of flesh.
Good Luck!

[kalbahnov]

I can't quite tell if you're buying used or new. For a used boat, the VAT should already be in the price as, I believe, it only has to be paid once and would have been paid by a previous owner. So if you buy a used boat in Europe and bring it home, you'll be paying that (because it's in the price) as well as a sales tax at home. But you should not get a separate VAT bill, as far as I know.

Where you're still getting an advantage, right now, is through the strength of the dollar. That's at least one reason why the same boat in Florida is so much more expensive. To take the most advantage, though, consider buying new and only paying one tax (at home).

It's probably also true that, for much older boats, the VAT will have been squeezed out of the price by market forces. That is, a 40 year old boat is only worth what someone will pay for it, VAT be damned (since it was paid a long time ago anyway).

So this question of new vs used makes your question a little unclear to me. Also, you talk of endless layers of red tape and gotcha rules, but the only concrete issue you're presenting is VAT. I wonder if you could say more about other obstacles you've encountered.

[Fence Man]

Unless a boat is somehow different from other goods, you shouldn't be paying VAT. We import goods and equipment from the UK on a regular basis, and have never paid any VAT.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by irrelevant

Don't be a troll. I don't have a problem with them. I have a problem with them being unknowable with certainty and ever source I find contradicts... There's just nothing in Europe worth having that unknown hanging over my head. I'll grab my boat and get out as fast as I can before they throw me in prison, confiscate the boat, and demand that I pay 20% VAT anyway...

He wasn't being a troll. Seriously, if you don't think you can handle the EU rules, you are in for a world of hurt when you start hitting other countries, particularly ones that actually have corrupt officials.


If you are buying and leaving the EU, no additional red tape and no unknowable rules. It's all straight forward and similar to buying a USCG documented boat.

What issues are you thinking you will run across? If you've really spent 18months researching and you don't understand the VAT rules, you really haven't tried.

The biggest issue we ran into is distance. It's not convenient to pop over and check on the boat or meet with the owner but with modern technology, Skype, email, electronic transfers it really wasn't much more difficult than buying a boat in Florida from Michigan from a guy in NY.

Mostly, this sounds like nerves and paranoia rather than a concrete problem.