I was going to buy a boat, but...

[uncle stinkybob]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Ex charter, bought abroad and 'imported'.. usually ignored in the main as they're usually SSR with red duster.. until they want to sell then they meet up with VAT and CE compatibility issues..
Such as my Hunter37.. got her back 1 day after the CE came into effect in the UK..
and there's not that many really that are privately owned

Got ya. So that deferred VAT would need to be payed even if said vessel were purchased by say an American and taken out of the U.K. ?
Thank you Boaty!

[David B]

Originally Posted by irrelevant

Don't be a troll. I don't have a problem with them. I have a problem with them being unknowable with certainty and ever source I find contradicts... There's just nothing in Europe worth having that unknown hanging over my head. I'll grab my boat and get out as fast as I can before they throw me in prison, confiscate the boat, and demand that I pay 20% VAT anyway...

Really it's not like that at all. Hundreds (I suspect thousands), of your fellow countrymen have bought boats in Europe and either stay there enjoying the place for years, or else just sail or have shipped back to the states. What happens when you enter the states is for you to ascertain. With a decent broker, you will be advised of the Duty rate, which states have the lowest taxes etc.

Back to Europe and the Mediterranean, it is a great place to spend some time. Our boat is VAT unpaid, and we have been there for coming up to six seasons now. The rules are simple. You either pay VAT (in a country with the lowest rate, and you can get it down to around 10%, but that's another subject), or you just make sure that you don't overstay the 18 month limit, or get your boat immobilised when you are not there, and then you can stay for 24 months max.

To re-set that clock, you just leave the EU VAT zone for a few days, (Tunisia, Morocco, Albania, Montenegro, Turkey, Gibralta ..), then come back in for another 18 months or so. We have been checked in Marseilles by three customs officers, boarded off the coast of Sicily by two Gardia Finanzia officers, and again, checked in Siracusa by another couple of Customs officers. They need to know who is coming and going, and check VAT status, but if you are doing the right thing, there is no problem.

We intend staying in the Med for another several years at least, and will continue to be VAT unpaid, but will continue to abide by their laws, and therefore continue to stay out of trouble and have a great experience over there.

For you, if you do not want to stay there, get a boat that is VAT unpaid (why pay that cost in the purchase price if you are not staying there), but ensure that the boat has paperwork to say that it has been out of the EU within the last 18 months (or 24 months if it has been immobilised) - AND has been in compliance for those 18 month periods since it's original handover date, then sail away, or have it shipped. But just be certain of the Duties and taxes you will be up for when importing into the States (for us, if we eventually come back to this part of the world, it will be New Zealand, not Australia that we bring her back to, as they have worked out over there that yachts are good for the economy, and you do not get slugged on entry (the officials actually give you a 'welcome pack' instead !). But again, that is another story.

I hope the above encourages you to re-look at your plan, and get that boat - live the dream!
David

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by uncle stinkybob

Got ya. So that deferred VAT would need to be payed even if said vessel were purchased by say an American and taken out of the U.K. ?
Thank you Boaty!

Buying a boat privately is so simple it the UK you'd likely not.. just exchange cash for doc's over a pint in the pub..
If its through a broker then it would be + VAT (claim back on departure) but the CE cost would not be refundable however legally that's the sellers problem, he'd have to get it done before he can sell.. as I found out.

[onavegador]

If you buy in the EU a new boat you have not to pay the VAT if you leave the EU at least before 18 months since signing of the contract or delviry of the boat are over.

If you buy an used boat from a private party the VAT is normally payd an cannot be refunded. And you as buyer must be aware that the seller hands you the documents who clearly show that the VAT was payd. Once I was looking at boat what was moored ten years in front of a customs office in Corsica, flying German flag, but the VAT was never payd. I do not know how it finished, but I kept off to purchase.

If you buy from a company they can sell you the boat ex VAT because they not you can collect the VAT back.

If buying an EU VAT payd boat not in EU water eg. Turkey you have to be aware if the VAT document is still valid. This because a boat what is for a longer period out of EU waters has to pay the VAT again if returning to EU.
This may be frustrating as it is up to the customs officer if for the returning boat the VAT has to payd again or not. (numerous discussions about this fact on Forums in Europe)

At the end: the EU officials are not trying to rip you off or they are malicious. They are correct, but if you do not speak the language it may strange to you. As it was for me when insuring and register my first car in Florida not to speak buying a home.

I remember my New Zealand and Aussie friends who entered with their boats the EU waters as I have and met them after the Cruising season in the Canaries before we left for the Caribbean. They told me: we never felt so free as during our sailing in Europe. We filled a form in Greece and other no one was asking about our papers until we cleared out in Las Palmas de Gran Canaria.

Take your chance the $ is strong to the €, boats are much cheaper than in the US (and sometimes better maintained)

[captlloyd]

Originally Posted by akprb

I kind of agree with the "nerves and paranoia" observation. If I don't understand "the words and contradictions" I hire a professional who is on the hook should they make a mistake. A good broker or local attorney to consummate the sale. Follow the rules they lay out and move on. If there is a problem down the road point to their front door.

It is impossible to know all the rules anymore, for the consumer and the creators of the rules. Pick one and go for it.

As far as the troll comment goes I have to agree, that was not trolling, just observing. The folks that have had troubles with officials are the ones in my experience who expected to have troubles with officials.

The post by the OP to me had an "sovereign citizen" tinge to it. Could be me but it sure seemed to voice unrealistic expectations. It also would seem that the OP has not traveled out of the country much. I don't think cruising is going to be his cup of tea.

[akprb]

I received same vibe. One thing I would argue world cruisers have in common is the ability to adapt with a smile. You meet the ones that don't have a smile and rarely spend much time when them :-)

[kazo]

Originally Posted by akprb

I received same vibe. One thing I would argue world cruisers have in common is the ability to adapt with a smile. You meet the ones that don't have a smile and rarely spend much time when them :-)

[SV Windrush II]

I am looking to do the same thing. Been eying several boats in Greece. thanks for the info.

The only other question would be importing the boat here in the Philippines with all the corruption hahaha.

[uncle stinkybob]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Buying a boat privately is so simple it the UK you'd likely not.. just exchange cash for doc's over a pint in the pub..
If its through a broker then it would be + VAT (claim back on departure) but the CE cost would not be refundable however legally that's the sellers problem, he'd have to get it done before he can sell.. as I found out.

Seems simple enough. Not that much different here in Washington State. I handed over the cash, he hands me signed title. I take it to state licencing pay tax, registration and title, done. but I'm a disabled veteran so I only pay tax, very cool!
Seems to be some very good deals over there. Lots of cool small bilge keel coastal boats. I've been watching a youtube poster in the UK. He's on a Westerly 25 I believe, circumnavigating the Isl. Just looks like a ton of fun and beautiful scenery. He drops the mast and cruises the channels also.
sorry for the thread jack.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by Dayo

To piggyback on this, If one was to buy in the EU as a US resident. How would one go about registering and papering the boat properly?

We had the owner deregister it from the UK listing and got USCG documentation.

The UK end was easy. The USCG took many months but that had zero to do with the boat being in Europe. They just take forever to process paperwork even if the boat is in the states.

[Izenears]

I know it can be a challenge, even going to new lands will have entry challenges but it is really not that hard. Yep VAT is annoying but you can easily get that answer from either the VAT in the Country in Question of try the Consulate in the Country. Better still contact a Tax accountant and pay his fee to guide you. The boat would have to be worth it of course. Nil illigitimus Carborundum I say (don't let the bastards grind you down) you are only buying a boat and sailing off into the sunsetm keep the faith and make the experience a happy one. B

[ranger58sb]

Originally Posted by Sav

Just buy a boat in Florida.

Originally Posted by irrelevant

Same boat. Beat to hell. Double the price.
Nope.

Note that the different electrical standards -- EU (well, almost anywhere, really) vs. US -- can lead to issues you'll maybe have to wrestle with.

And advertised prices are often a mere suggestion.

-Chris

[StuM]

Originally Posted by ranger42c

And advertised prices are often a mere suggestion. wishful thinking

-Chris

That may be more accurate.