I need some basic no nonsense information about my first yacht please

[Rumrace]

I’ve yet to see an 80’s boat which isn’t getting chalky”. Some sealer and wax you’ve got it delayed but glass gets old and weak with age and good use.
Older boats are parts lists. Each part has a history of good and bad purchase options never cheap. My runabout is old from the 80’s but spent most it’s life in a barn.
Maybe I should reread but racing fixed keel in the same paragraph must mean there are old timer races in your area. Most are several knots slower like a week behind you on vacation. Some of them don’t point worth a hoot either. Embrace the evolution. Old boat more often than not cost more and you spend more time fixing them than boating. You’ll meet high paid doctors at marinas and clubs so infatuated with their boat repairs they take on skill sets and perform complex marine maintenance and restoration below the standards or a real marine mechanic is at least 5 times the time. They loose sight on what they actually do for a living to afford a boat.
Suddenly your boat has nicer stuff than your house!
The twin cabins from the Hunter 33 up to the Jeanneau and Beneteau 36-38 and a range of Catalina’s is likely where you’ll find a reasonable boat easy to maintain. 1997 on they were all pretty much equal.

[pcmm]

Originally Posted by Bowdrie

My "stock" answer to inquires such as yours.
Westsail 32.
Why?
Their were over 800 of them produced, some factory, some owner finished, and there are lots of them everywhere in a wide price range, (many of the "kit" or owner finished ones are nicer than the factory ones).
They are virtually indestructible, you can "bang them around" without worry.
They are easy to work on and many of the parts are still available.
They have enough load carrying ability to haul all the stuff/junk that you might want.
There are many that have already had a lot of upgrades and newer gear put aboard.
An active owner association.

Wow, I don't think I'd ever recommend a Westsail as a First boat for a new sailor. They're great boats but they are not something you give to someone who is first getting into sailing. You want to get them into something that will be fun, responsive but safe. Honestly a Catalina 30 is a much better choice. Active owners group, they built many many of them, so choice is there, and they have resale value (and appeal) for when you want to move up.

Leave the Westsail and other heavy boats for later in the process once you've decided that crossing oceans really is going to happen.

[Yellowtulip]

Originally Posted by wingssail

That is simply incorrect. A moderately high performance fin keel spade rudder boat is far easier and safer to sail than heavier, full keel boats. It uses much smaller sails, will sail well on any point of sail, (can beat off a lee shore) requires much less effort on the helm and other controls, tracks perfectly with a powerful detached rudder, and motors with a small engine. A boat like that will be responsive and offer excellent feedback to the helm and crew, far more satisfactory than the dead feel of a full keel heavyweight. They are not "easy to get into trouble with", their capabilities help keep them out of trouble.



Yes, it takes a high skill level to get the maximum out of a performance boat, but an average sailor with average skills or even beginning skills will see far better performance than the best sailor can get out of a Westsail 32. And it will be FUN to sail. A person who learns on a performance boat and has never sailed on any other kind of boat, when they first get underway on a heavy full keel boat, will ask, "What is wrong with this boat, there is no feel?"



Almost all modern boats are moderate to light fin keel spade rudder boats and they are sailed all over the world. Any one of them will do what OP says he wants.



Here is an excellent example: a 1981 Contessa 39, in excellent condition, used for several years as a liveaboard racer, been to the South Pacific, and an exact sister ship to the second place Eclipse in the 1979 Fastnet, behind Ted Turner's Tenacious, a race in which several sailors and boats were lost and few boats finished. https://seattle.craigslist.org/see/b...532256896.html

You’re absolutely right.

[Peeew]

There are a lot of nice boats in your range that will sail well and be new enough to reduce the chances of needing major system refits. Your first post described a boat with characteristics that many here have suggested you avoid. I agree that taking some sailing classes and doing some chartering is a great way to start. Then with some more knowledge and experience you can broaden your search for a boat that will do a good job of meeting your true needs. Don’t ignore production boats. Lots of them are produced and sailed all over the world for a good reason - they do a great job at a reasonable cost.

[pcmm]

Originally Posted by Rumrace

Maybe I should reread but racing fixed keel in the same paragraph must mean there are old timer races in your area. Most are several knots slower like a week behind you on vacation. Some of them don’t point worth a hoot either.

Rumrace, not sure you get out on the water much but almost 90% of racing is done on fixed keel boats...

[clamshack]

I would suggest you purchase a boat within 10 ft of the one you ultimately want to cruise on. So, maybe 32ft is good. An ASA 101/103/104 liveaboard class is a good intro. They range from very expensive (BVI/So FL) to more basic versions SC/TX. The cost loosely correlates to the age of vessel and student to instructor ratio.

When you're ready to go cruising make sure you factor in about 30% of the vessel purchase price for upgrades and gear. Also, it's going to take at least a few months to source and install all this stuff. So, ultimately that 125k boat is going to be more like 163k. This can vary though by what's already onboard and how handy you are.

IMHO be wary of "cruise ready" boats. The equipment is likely approaching replacement age and the rigging has often seen more stress than boats that stay local.

[Rumpi]

Here is my view:

1. Learning to sail: this is easy, take some courses. Besides actual sail training what's really important is boat handling in different situations. How to dock in different positions and wind strenght, how to anchor or pick up a mooring (also under sail would be nice), close quarter maneuvers inside a marina and mooring/anchor field, etc. There are courses who specifically adress this, where you do nothing else all day long. Add some tidal navigation to the curriculum, read some books and you are basically good to go.

2. Learning about cruising: take some charters in a similar climate as you plan on cruising, on similar sized boats as you contemplate to buy. Go a little into the extreme ranges if you can, add something smaller and something bigger to the mix. Experiment to learn what's important to you comfort wise, do you need the indoor shower with hot water? Oven? Pressure water? Water maker? Big power dinghy? How much solar?
This trips will inform you about the realities of life on the water and how you adapt to them.

3. Buying a small boat first: this depends on your intended schedule. If you don't plan to buy a boat and depart tomorrow, buy something and exercise all those skills you learned on a body of water near you. What you buy is not really important, it should either be cheap enough to not matter much, or be desirable for your area so you can unload it quickly. For example an old Star boat can be had for the price of the trailer or less, s-h sails are plenty, and you can try your boat building skills on it without fear of devaluation. IMHO for your situation a cabin is only useful as shelter for a toilet.

4. Cruising boat makeover: There are two areas here, regardless of what boat you buy. One is the mandatory big trip preparation and upgrade. You will have to do this on any boat you buy, go over all systems with a fine comb, do preventive maintenance, replace and add as necessary/desired.
The other area is aesthetics, and it's optional.
Putting a boat in a barn and rebuilding it is fine, but you must understand the tradeoffs, while you might buy it cheap, transport can be a significant cost (size matters, especially height). Time is another, anything takes three times as long, nothing is straight, nothing fits off the shelf and there is no one single way of doing it right.
You only do this if you enjoy it, otherwise you will be caught in endless sanding, doubts about how to best do a specific task, etc. and your motivation will quickly disappear. If you think you can flip a wreck in a few months, forget it. The upside is that if you pull it off you have exactly what you wanted and know exactly how and when to repair/replace everything.

[c.K.]

Originally Posted by Pinchecharlie

So, I’ve decided that I will buy my first sailing vessel. My goal is to be very safe and to sail around the easiest places first then when iam ready go wherever the wind is blowing right? I honestly do not know a thing about any of it but that’s what iam doing. I have a budget of let’s say 125k . Now after making my head explode and trying to learn who’s information is to be trusted, I wonder what to do. I’ am wondering now if a option that may be over looked or if iam way off base money wise. That’s buying maybe a slightly tired but sound vessel and spending the money in a refit rather than buying bigger newer ? I’ve done several homes, several large projects and have worked forever with restoration style work. BUT I have no idea of the costs of the sailboat world. Iam just running out of years and need a good start soon. My plan would be a very strong heavy boat from 37-42 feet? A intregal keel. A catch or sloop? Center cockpit from the 8o’s? Or a 70’s a bit bigger and completely gut and re fit? My plan was to try and sail The Caribbean as a start and being very careful of all things. I’d actually like to see the Mediterranean so I’d be willing to buy in Europe or wherever also? It seems that the boats always need re done so why not just re do it state of the budget first thing or am I real off? Now remember this is whit in reason. Say a 25-40k boat with another 25-40k for remodel? I dunno?

Hey: Buying older boat make sure you can get insurance and make sure you have a slip in a marina , good advice to rent or crew a vessel first as well
Good luck

[cdreid]

You can buy a used 22 to 30 for $2000 to 10,000. Take sailing courses these folks will reccommend. Sail it.. live aboard it or camp on it at least until you get comfortable (this is my plan btw). Then maybe offer to crew for people or.. what im likely to do.. find that guy in the old beat up 35 footer who sails it everywehre but is obviously broke and offer to pay him to teach you to sail your newtoyou bigger boat.
Theres also no law you have to jump in it and sail to the bahamas. Rent a slip for a few months or a year and take it out daily til you have a handle on things.

As for your cost people have done everything from cheap to free boats they fix up to.. as much money as exists. From what i can see.. if youre young OR have a lot of money .. you can buy a fixer upper and trade sweat equity for a nice boat. But for most of us the best bet is a good quality boat surveyed by someone who knows what theyre doing for a little more money. There are some good ready to go or.. need a tiny bit of work in the 20 to 25k range. At the 40-50k range there are a LOT of them. 100k generally gets you a boat in extremely nice condition.

Also: do it. Im 58. Long story but became a trucker at 45 "only for a year" to buy and fix up a cheap sailboat to cruise on. 17 years later i remembered "oh ya i was going to do that". 4 more years ill do what you want to do.. with plenty of cash in the bank hopefully. Do it now. I should have 10 years ago.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by chrisr

firstly, unless you already have a reasonable amount of boating experience (and it sounds like you do not), i would suggest that you buy something much smaller - say 25' - as a first boat.
this will be a lot easier to learn to sail on, less complicated to manage - and in a worse case scenario, tie up a lot less capital if after the first storm you decide that sailing really isn't for you.

^^^This.

Maybe as big as 30-35ft but on the cheaper end of things.

Odds are you will make mistakes with your first purchase. These can be buying a boat with major problems or a boat that is not suitable to your use. You probably don't know enough to know what you really want. On a bigger more expensive boat, it's an expensive lesson to learn.

After you've had the smaller simpler boat, you will have a better feel for what you really want and for the issues to look for.

PS: Sailing and Cruising are two different activities. Make sure you understand the difference and which one you are after.

[sailasia]

No nonsense?

Id say 40% of similar people regret it and wind up losing a ton of money on the boat selling it within 2 years.

How to avoid those odds? Go to a YC and meet some people to sail with for a couple years. See how hard and expensive it is.

Then buy an old 30 footer. Fix it up and take it out as much as you can.

Then dream about that huge boat and plans.

[goboatingnow]

Don’t buy some old ancient full keel nonsense. Get a modern production boat as new as you can afford buy mainstream as these are easier to sell

Buying in Europe is easy and they med is a great place to learn , 100000s of Jeannys Benny, Bavs etc. loads of trade expertise in these yachts spares everywhere. They sail well are comfortable to live on and suit warm climate sailing. Zillions of sailors enjoy them.

And yes Greece is brilliant even if costs are rising 500ml of beer at €3 , my gyro dinner cost €2.40 yesterday

[SV Tom Crean]

“A strong heavy boat with a full keel…”. Why? What’s your reasoning and logic for this requirement?

[Pinchecharlie]

Lots of good advice. I will follow it and try to avoid the pit falls lol. I am unfortunately in bed sick as a dawg with stupid Covid. Day 3 now and it’s pretty terrible. I have offered a couple near by 4k on their Catalina 22 so we’ll see if I like sailing or if iam just fantasizing about warm weather and sandy beaches. Ugh… so sick . Don’t get this just cause it’s like a terrible flu.

[Pegu Club]

You might give consideration to the basic ASA classes to acquaint yourself to the hows and whys of sailing, then get a small (yet useful boat) to practice how to implement what you have learned, and then if you like the sailing thing, sure buy a bigger boat, remember, its all about the condition of the boat, deferred maintenance is always to be noted, its the condition of the hull, the deck, the hull to deck joint, and the standing rigging ( mast, boom, chain plates, and shrouds, cosmetic concerns come last.

Fair winds,