How much is enough?

[WayneB]

Those are all good points in my opinion as are many of the others. The captain is going to take up more space than you think and will severely limit you privacy and ability to accommodate guests. My wife and I cruise a 50 ft trawler, mostly by ourselves, and it is just about the right size for 2 people living aboard for long stretches. When we have guests aboard, the boat gets a lot smaller very quickly. A lot of potential captains are going to come with a wife or girl friend. That can be OK but will increase the space and privacy issues. Think about a catamaran.

Insurance cost is going to depend a lot on when and where you cruise. Many/most policies will want you out of the Caribbean during the hurricane season. Most people we know either take the boat north to the US or south to Trinidad. We are covered for Florida, East coast of US, Turks and Caicos and the Bahamas for 12 months a year. The cost for a boat well under half your value is over $5,000 USD/year and has a very high deductible. If we cruise the Carib in the winter time, that adds an extra $800 USD. If you are up for a transatlantic crossing, you can cruise the Med or north western Europe during hurricane season.

[Kevin84]

FF, has your wife been on many boats? If she thought a 45DS was tiny, she needs to recalibrate her expectations. Or this may not be life for her. If she is set on a larger boat, check out the Tayana 55. Solid, proven, beautiful cruising boat that is absolutely huge down below. Not to mention, you can buy a late 90s 55 for around $350k USD. Good luck in your search.

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app

[Time2Go]

Also be aware that the interiors of boats can be customized
The Jenneau 45 I mentioned before
Was set up with two cabins and two ensuite
Heads with showers
It was by no means Tiny
I could have lived on it forever
Boatman makes a good point
The Jenneau had a 55 stick
plus radio masts and drew
5'6" and we were always checking
on our 1100 nm trip from NJ to Fla
No 58's on the ICW

[StuM]

> Wife needs a reasonable owners cabin, salon, and a place to put her towel for tanning.

Since no one else has said it, I will start the war

Sounds to me like a 45-50ft Catamaran would fit the bill better than a 60ish ft mono.

[giant]

Cat is the obvious choice if you want your wife on board, women love them.

I am no expert in stock market but I believe the market is heading fora crash like no other, everything has been patched up by the governments by creating more money simply can't last.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by FinallyFree

.

I have a few friends that are also boaters (not sailors) and they are telling me that buying smaller boats and working my way up is a waist of time and money. They all advised me to buy the biggest thing I could afford and hire a captain so I was setting my goals at a final resting point right off the bat.

Remember your buddy won't be taking the quarter million dollar loss when you buy a boat that doesn't fit your needs or the wife decides 60' isn't big enough and you have to dump it for a big loss.

Even with plenty of research beforehand, most folks buy a different boat once they are more experienced. Your loss will be far less with a used 40'er than a new 60'er.

If you are worth $30-40 million, putting $800k at risk, may not be a big concern but if it represents a big chunk of your retirement nest egg, I would be very concerned buying poorly and going too big too fast.

Get a captain to show you the ropes for a week or two. If you haven't got it by then, a couple years won't help.

[BandB]

Charter some similar to those you're considering and find out how both you and your wife feel. Also, if you charter one that is captained, that will give you an opportunity to learn some.

You have many questions to resolve before purchasing. Size. Cat vs. Mono. Perhaps even sail vs. power as you mentioned limited sailing experience and didn't indicate how much she has. But when space and creature comforts become critical over operating costs then sometimes the pendulum switches to trawlers.

[ranger58sb]

Originally Posted by FinallyFree

I probably should not have mentioned a boat. I think I got you all hung up on a 60' boat by accident. Wife needs a reasonable owners cabin, salon, and a place to put her towel for tanning. Really wish I hadn't mentioned the boat now because it doesn't need to be that. Was just trying to set a budget.

I have a few friends that are also boaters (not sailors) and they are telling me that buying smaller boats and working my way up is a waist of time and money. They all advised me to buy the biggest thing I could afford and hire a captain so I was setting my goals at a final resting point right off the bat.

The general opinion seems to be that more than 50' is too much craft. I'll need to take that into consideration for sure. I'm also a Pilot so this concept is not lost on me. I do realize I'm not about to try and handle a 747 either.

Didn't mean to suggest 58" (or whatever) is too big, just thought useful to point out that perceived space is also a function of overall design. I don't think we could (would want to) live aboard anything less than about a 55' powerboat.

There's lots to be said for buying the target boat first, rather than working up... if you can swing it.

-Chris

[thinwater]

Originally Posted by FinallyFree

... Does this type of craft really demand more than one experience crew?....

...I have a few friends that are also boaters (not sailors) and they are telling me that buying smaller boats and working my way up is a waist of time and money. They all advised me to buy the biggest thing I could afford and hire a captain....

... The reason for such a large craft has to do with my wife. I've taken her on a couple 45' Jenneau's and she thought they were tiny....

All three of those statements frighten me.

1. You should know the answer to that question. I'm not saying it does not vary with the person, but you should know yourself and sailing better than that.

2. If you actually enjoy sailing, it is not a "waist" of time. Sailors love all sailing. Boaters are completely different. Figure out which you are.

3. Sounds like she is not a sailor and you will be, in effect, single handing. Alternatively, she might like a cat better. When you get to that size, they feel more like houses.

[Kenomac]

Forget the Beneteau 58 which first caught our attention four years ago. With your budget, look at Oyster 53, 54 and especially the Oyster 56 in the slightly used market. Outfit it as you like... Then you won't need the hired hand. My wife and I do just fine by ourselves. Many times I sail alone. Oysters are set up for a cruising couple.

One more consideration, where will you be spending most of your time? Shallow water? At anchor? A 45-50 catamaran is enormous compared to a 58' monohull, much more stable on the hook and deep draft isn't a problem, plus... you can't beat the 360 view from the living room.

Be sure to look at the Lagoon 450 and Lagoon 500 before settling on the Beneteau 58. Same company, twice the boat for liveaboard.

[Prairie Chicken]

Where will you be spending your time is a very big question that will need answering. Will it be in a beautiful & remote anchorage, or a luxury marina with fine dining restaurants just down the quay? And do you and the mrs agree on that answer?

Also, consider shopping in the Med. There are a lot of boats for sale there and the market is still depressed. I suspect you may get better deals there on used yachts. By the way, buying a used yacht isn't like buying a new car--you may get a far better boat if in the used market. The Med isn't an answer though if you're planning on living aboard for greater than 90 days every 180 days (Google Schengen). Plus, it's not warm enough in the winter months. That's why many of the big yachts are put on Dockwise or similar yacht transport & moved from Caribbean in the winter to the Med in summer. You don't have to actually sail across.

[atoll]

you really want to be looking in the 70 ft range,as unless your wife likes a full time cleaning job,and you are both happy to act as crew 24/7 ,a skipper getting $100 a day would have to be doing it for love rather than money!

a 58 ft mono is not actually that big unless you get on really well with your skipper,especially if you spend a lot of time at anchor!
but it is of a size that it will need 2-3 people on hand for docking.

at 70ft ideally you would have a skipper and hostess,with their own quarters allowing a degree of privacy between owner and crew.
also the hostess would be on hand to crew,clean,and possibly cook to a high standard,or just simple stuff.

this allows the boat to be moved with or without you onboard,and generally if you find the right couple for the job,,a happy skipper ,a well maintained boat,kept to a high standard of cleanliness.

i'm not saying that you will not find a skipper for $100 a day who is celibate,likes to cook and clean,and will be part of the family,but the chances are he will be young,not that experinced,never used a washing machine,and expect your wife to cook and clean!
then jump ship when he gets a better offer!

[valhalla360]

I think you are on the cusp of 2 different cruising lifestyles:
- You have the true megayacht lifestlye. In which case your budget boat and crew expectations are way low.
- You have the couple cruisng on thier sailboat lifestyle (all be it upper end), in which case you will generally find folks much more hands on and a full time crew won't fit well long term.

Trying to split the difference, neither works well. Purely my opinon but you came asking for advice, so...

[FinallyFree]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

If you are worth $30-40 million, putting $800k at risk, may not be a big concern but if it represents a big chunk of your retirement nest egg, I would be very concerned buying poorly and going too big too fast.

Again, I do thank everyone for their great tips and advice. Especially those who have been providing real raw data. Trying to get the conversation back on track though would be great. I really don't think that the concern should be around what I may or may not be worth. I am the only one who can know whether or not this type of a move fits inside my budget and that's why I'm trying to find out costs from those who have actually experienced them.

So, based on this statement is it your advice then that any boat that I should get should not be more than 2-3% of my total net worth? That seems pretty unrealistic for most people. I may be way off but I'm guessing that most people have a lot more than that sunk into their yachts.

[Cuttyhunk]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

I think you are on the cusp of 2 different cruising lifestyles:
- You have the true megayacht lifestlye. In which case your budget boat and crew expectations are way low.
- You have the couple cruisng on thier sailboat lifestyle (all be it upper end), in which case you will generally find folks much more hands on and a full time crew won't fit well long term.

Trying to split the difference, neither works well. Purely my opinon but you came asking for advice, so...