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Old 07-12-2016, 20:01   #16
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Re: How bad does this engine look?

The seller emailed me back and said it is currently being worked on; said the mechanic from A1 Motors is replacing the water pump and cleaning the corrosion. He also said it started up after sitting for 3 years. So I will at least look at it when the work is done.

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Old 07-12-2016, 20:24   #17
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Re: How bad does this engine look?

The alternator, which is also the tensioner is at maximum tension as well. NOT good.

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Old 07-12-2016, 20:55   #18
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Re: How bad does this engine look?

The white unsupported wire in the top right of the photo looks like Romex, house wire. Unless you're looking for a major project it's not worth getting out of bed to look at.
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Old 07-12-2016, 21:15   #19
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Re: How bad does this engine look?

Well, you're right, it looks horrible...

Just about like it's been sitting unused for three years.

So, while the seller might sorta be being truthful by saying 'recently refurbished', they're not being entirely honest. The engine may have 20 hours on it, but the actual condition may not reflect that.

As least the belt won't be squealing... Seriously though, regardless of what the mechanic does, you should be able to knock at least 2-4000 off the price for 'engine wear/uncertainty', and to cover the cost of potential future engine water and oil sealing issues. Depending on where the boat is and if the engine was properly mothballed, condensation can have just a big effect on the interior parts of the engine as on the exterior. That the engine started after sitting up for 3 years bodes well, but is no guarantee of the condition of the cylinder walls, rings or any of the water or oil seals and engine mounts. Obviously the belt and r/w impeller need changing; usually the rust on the pulleys will smooth out, but in rare cases it can cause more rapid belt wear.

To avoid future problems the engine electrical system probably needs to have the cables checked and connections removed, cleaned (I would Ox-guard, or similar, every one) and reassembled.

Some people might say that a compression test is necessary, but if the engine runs well, starts easily, doesn't smoke, revs up to a little over redline in neutral and moves the boat well, I say what's the point?

Unless the rest of the boat is immaculate, 29,000 seems a bit on the high side to me...
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Old 07-12-2016, 21:23   #20
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Re: How bad does this engine look?

I'm not suggesting it was refurbished but years ago I gave someone a price to rebuild a Dodge 360 motor. The price rocked the guy. Asked if I could reduce the price I took 5 hours off ( it was a full crank grind, and 20 thou rebore, full valve machining etc) and I explained that his new donk would LOOK just like the dead one, just steam cleaned. No sand blasting of heads or block, same ugly rocker covers, not a drop of paint. He was happier with the new price as cosmetics were less important than his kids food.
Not my or my mechanics normal modus operandi but just sometimes personal pride is inless important.
People also steam clean 75% good motors and sell 'em as "refurbished".
Reconditioned or refurbished is only as good as the detail of the parts RECEIPTS.
Crappy paint, loose alt drive belts, surface corrosion all tell nothing about engine serviceability. Only receipts, a blow-by test (2 minute job), sounds etc tell the real story. If blow-by etc is good most things, if supported by receipts and other sounds and observations by competent eyes and ears, should be OK.
On this motor......the wrong " V" belt, too long, indicates nothing.
It don't look pretty but copper and iron pyrite look just like gold to the Ill informed. Pretty rocker covers might be fools gold.
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Old 07-12-2016, 22:58   #21
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Re: How bad does this engine look?

Not being an expert, my first thought was "how long was it submerged for?" That's a lot of salt water corrosion. However, there are lots of repair people who wouldn't think to fresh water rinse it all off at the time of repair. Without its owner to look after it, and given that most women wouldn't have thought of it at all, it has become rusted, and corroded on some of its other metals, as well.

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Old 07-12-2016, 23:24   #22
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Re: How bad does this engine look?

Note the little brown piece on the soda lid laying under the oilpan. That is a flake off of the starboard forward motor mount bearing surface (on the bottom of the engine, above the mount itself but the support for the mount). It fell off when I was removing the oilpan. There was apparently a water leak in a hose on the starboard side (from this angle, we are looking aft, of course) and the alternator and starter were eaten, and the oilpan is razor thin on that side, leading to a replacement of it as well. The engine is clean as a whistle inside, however. A salt water spraydown by a PO and no addressing of the corrosion thus introduced/enhanced can make an external wreck of an engine, and this one has so far cost me an alternator, a starter, hoses, clamps, oil pan, an oil change, and two valve springs along with a bunch of shipping, and it has not even fired over yet.

What I am saying is that the side of the engine that got liberally doused is obviously so, and the corrosion even tried to move to the other side as well. The whole thing is getting a solid cleaning as soon as I can get it the fuel lines repressurized, as when it does start I want to be sure I did not inject water into those lines while they were loose (as they are at the moment, I think they are sucking air). The engine has good compression, just is not getting fuel at enough pressure yet because the copper washers on the lines seem to have failed.

Don't discard the engine for salt necessarily as some others have also advised, but remember you will be replacing the alternator, starter, oil pan, motor mounts, belts, potentially pulleys and other metallic items that have dissolved, seals, etc. If the engine was recently refurbished, it is going to likely need a more recent attempt as well if you cannot halt the salt's attack on the aluminum and fiber parts. Unfortunately, that is the majority of the parts I lost, and will be the same for that engine.

Now, all that said, IMHO, it can be worth it to fix all this IF you can locate the necessary parts (my engine is from 1978 and no longer made new, but some tractor stores carry odd spares when I can locate part numbers for them, such as the aforementioned broken valve spring that at least in part halted the PO on this boat's restoration prior to my attempt to revive it). However, you DO need to consider this can be a substantial effort in your offer, and you also must consider that just because someone refurbished something, they may or may not have done it properly. Don't insult the lady by inferring her husband was inept or anything, but keep the thought that you may have to do the refurb again, in addition to handling the situation you see outwardly, to get this thing going again. It could be a rough gem, but it could also be a rust clod too, and that engine looks heavier to lift than mine is... Yours is also MORE corroded than mine, and I had an oil pan that was razor thin on that side... I managed to locate another pan on eBay for about 70 bucks... How lucky are you?

Consider the cost of the rebuild or repurchase of another power plant plus the labor return on both processes, and bid from there. I wish I had done so, personally, and did not.
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Old 08-12-2016, 07:19   #23
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Re: How bad does this engine look?

if you love the boat, this is remedy-able. just takes a little work.
if it starts up and runs, just change some parts and paint it pink (ha ha ha ha ) get overhaul and go. why overthink.
is good to overhaul the engine of any new to you boat so you know the exact number of hours, correct?? so.... if you LOVE the boat--- make arrangements for repairs. they all need repairs, so start with heart of the propulsion system and work outward.
if the rest of boat is good to go --i would do this.
life is an adventure meant to be LIVED!!!!
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Old 08-12-2016, 07:31   #24
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Re: How bad does this engine look?

I would guess the boat is no better than the engine. The owner out right lied about the engine condition-----refurbished----whatever that means. The rest of the boat will be the same. If she's willing to pay you to haul it off and you have plenty of other money and time, then and only then consider it.
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Old 08-12-2016, 09:02   #25
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Re: How bad does this engine look?

This is where you find an engine surveyor instead of all of us internet experts. Just make sure the surveyor doesnt work for the shop that the mechanic came from. Make sure he gives you a written report with price estimates , including cosmetics and also a cost for a complete rebuild. Then go talk to the lady. Her husband had probably told her how wonderful he kept his Yacht. Good luck, _____Grant.
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Old 08-12-2016, 09:31   #26
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Re: How bad does this engine look?

Ok, if the owner died 5 years ago its possible that this much rust and corrosion could accumulate if its left at a mooring un-operated. Which means any refurbishment was done in the years prior to death and now it needs it again.
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Old 08-12-2016, 09:36   #27
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Re: How bad does this engine look?

I have noticed boat owners have a tenancy to say "new replaced xyz" when in actuality is was done 4 or 5 years ago. I ignore all boasts of new, immaculate, superb, refurbished, replaced, upgraded, etc. and just look at if for what is is, waiting to be broken.
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Old 08-12-2016, 10:31   #28
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Re: How bad does this engine look?

Figure $10,000 to $15,000 to replace the diesel & deduct that from the price. Those are nice boats & worth bringing back if you can get it right.
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Old 08-12-2016, 10:44   #29
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Re: How bad does this engine look?

Run away. Paddle if necessary.
Can't sleep? Read for fast relief. Can't read? Avoid, because it's just personal reviews of sea books.
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Old 08-12-2016, 10:58   #30
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Re: How bad does this engine look?

Refurbished....rebuilt....overhauled...people continually use the terms very lightly and as they see fit. Could mean completely redone with all new innards including machining & assembly by a competent technician/shop etc. Or it could just be a new v-belt. Usually something in between. It's always buyer beware until you see the proof. Btw, this picture smacks of the latter.

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