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17-07-2024, 21:13
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#61
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Moderator
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 6,550
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Re: Head on collision
Liebe Tickles:
Kommen Sie vieleicht aus Deutschland, und sprechen Sie vileicht am liebsten Deutsch :-)?
I ask because Rule 5 of the International Regulations for the Prevention of Collisions at Sea , (COLREGS for short), which it appears that you did not observe, is very, very explicit, but it contains a grammatical subtlety that may not be obvious to people whose first language is NOT English, regardless of how proficient they may be in English as a "second language"
The rule says:
[I] Every vessel shall at all times maintain a proper look-out by sight and hearing as well as by all available means appropriate in the prevailing circumstances and conditions so as to make a full appraisal of the situation and of the risk of collision.
The words "..by sight and hearing AS WELL as by all AVAILABLE means...
[/I compel you to use "sight and hearing" as your PRINCIPAL tools at all times. You MAY, if you have them, AUGMENT "sight and hearing" by sundry electronic devices, but you may NOT rely on those devices as your principal tools for satisfying the requirement for constant look-out.
I would like to add that in a cruising boat, a "deck sweeping" Genoa has no place. A deck sweeping Genoa can be tolerated in a boat actively engaged in racing because active racing proceeds according to rules that are in ADDITION to COLREGS, but do not replace them.
Anyway, I'm glad you came to no harm. When on the helm you really have to have a "rubber neck". If you have blind spots, for any reason at all, where you sit or stand at the helm, then post a crew member as a look-out. If you are sailing alone, then change your headsail to one that doesn't give you blind spots.
If my opening surmise is correct, do you have the COLREGS translated into German?
All the best to you :-)
TrentePieds
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18-07-2024, 06:20
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#62
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: Rochester, NY
Boat: Chris Craft 381 Catalina
Posts: 6,954
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Re: Head on collision
To some of the points above, there's also the modern solution: add a camera to give a better view of blind spots. If it's hard to move around enough to see past something, a camera or 2 with a display somewhere visible can help a lot.
I see plenty of pilothouse trawlers with cameras to see behind them, for example.
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30-07-2024, 00:52
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#63
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2020
Location: EU
Posts: 149
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Re: Head on collision
Yes, I like the idea of a camera facing the front. The issue is getting it to show up on the chartplotter so it's easier to use it; and ultimately actually we use it.
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30-07-2024, 01:37
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#64
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Lake Macquarie NSW
Boat: Chamberlin 11.6 catamaran
Posts: 989
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Re: Head on collision
A front camera seems like a good idea but so does the 15 minute look around. Every 15 minutes you look at a cloud up front and then scan the horizon until you get to see the same cloud - move if you need to, heck you will need to move anyway, scan the rig, look for whales then go back to your seat, but don't obscure your view forward or back and don't stay seated.
Sail on some race boats on a crowded harbour like Sydney Harbour - you haven't had a good look until you clock the same points from windward and leeward - it is drummed into a racer because we get so close to each other. Getting as close as the OP did to a boat doing 8 knots means no one saw anything for about 20 minutes which is pretty dire.
When I was a sailing instructor I asked the couple sailing if we were clear. They had just got certification from our school and I was on for the day. We were on starboard tack and sailing on Sydney Harbour on a weekday with few boats about. I was legs on the rail on the windward side when I saw the bow of a yacht on port crossing us about 10 metres away. I jumped up, rammed the tiller off the helmsman jammed it to leeward and we ended up parallel about 2 metres away from each other with huge eyes and nothing spoken. Get off your bum and do the full sweep every 15 minutes or get someone responsible to do it. If you are the skipper and you don't sweep every 15 minutes you are sadly an irresponsible skipper.
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30-07-2024, 03:36
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#65
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Lake Macquarie NSW
Boat: Chamberlin 11.6 catamaran
Posts: 989
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Re: Head on collision
I come across as a bit of a know all in the above message - I got the tone wrong. I consider myself responsible for everything that happens on a boat I am in charge of - but that is a personal thing.
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30-07-2024, 05:44
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#66
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Senior Cruiser

Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Thunder Bay, Ontario - 48-29N x 89-20W
Boat: (Cruiser Living On Dirt)
Posts: 51,761
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Re: Head on collision
FWIW: The only thing worse, than a head on collision, is a head-off collision.
__________________
Gord May
"If you didn't have the time or money to do it right in the first place, when will you get the time/$ to fix it?"
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30-07-2024, 19:06
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#67
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Moderator
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 6,550
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Re: Head on collision
Catsketcher:
I'll back you up on everything you said in post #64! And furthermore, you needn't apologize for the "tone" of that post at all :-). I think it was spot on, and I particularly liked you last sentence!
TrentePieds
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30-07-2024, 21:07
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#68
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Moderator
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Australia
Posts: 3,933
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Re: Head on collision
Quote:
Originally Posted by TrentePieds
Catsketcher:
I'll back you up on everything you said in post #64! And furthermore, you needn't apologize for the "tone" of that post at all :-). I think it was spot on, and I particularly liked you last sentence!
TrentePieds
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Definitely, plus one for post #64, nothing to apologise for in that post and a lot to be gained from reading it.
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31-07-2024, 09:00
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#69
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 28
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Re: Head on collision
Every 15 minutes? Excuse me, but imho the person on the helm needs to be looking around constantly. AND when there is a blind spot, someone needs to be sitting where they can see in that direction, And be awake and alert. Situations change quickly every time someone else tacks their boat.
Most bays have all kinds of traffic on them mostly all going in different directions.
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31-07-2024, 13:59
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#70
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Arctic Ocean
Boat: Under construction 35' ketch (and +3 smaller)
Posts: 2,992
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Re: Head on collision
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lewis Harry
Every 15 minutes? Excuse me, but imho the person on the helm needs to be looking around constantly. AND when there is a blind spot, someone needs to be sitting where they can see in that direction, And be awake and alert. Situations change quickly every time someone else tacks their boat.
Most bays have all kinds of traffic on them mostly all going in different directions.
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That's for higher trafic and coastal areas. Open ocean you might sail days without any other vessel in AIS or radar range so 15 to 20min is good as long as visibility is good and eye balling is done properly.
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03-02-2025, 06:22
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#71
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2020
Location: EU
Posts: 149
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Re: Head on collision
An update on our experience:
- surveyors from both our insurance and the 3rd party agreed on the repair scope and fault (the 3rd party)
- the other insurance company refused to pay which delayed approval for the repair to start by ca. 3 months
- eventually we received approval for the full repair including hull painting both sides (only 5% was damaged one side but the hull paint is 14 years old so it would be obvious)
- once we received the check minus a deductible since the claim wasn't settled, we paid 50% for the work to start
- the repair has been completed by the selected vendor
- our insurance surveyor has inspected the boat and deemed repairs to be of a high standard
The repair bill came to ca. 40% of the hull value.
We received the policy renewal today; and we were pleased to see the cost is the same as last year. Couldn't be happier with the outcome.
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04-02-2025, 05:17
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#72
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Registered User
Join Date: May 2019
Location: Florida, Off the Caloosahatchee Canal for the Summer
Boat: Beebe Passagemaker 50'
Posts: 899
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Re: Head on collision
Good for you! Glad to see that someone actually got from an insurance policy what they advertise that they'll provide. Best of luck in the future, now, get back on the water!
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04-02-2025, 06:11
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#73
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Writing Full-Time Since 2014
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Deale, MD
Boat: PDQ Altair, 32/34
Posts: 10,273
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Re: Head on collision
That's why they call them accidents. Good.
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04-02-2025, 08:06
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#74
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Sailing Eastern Caribbean
Boat: Hallberg Rassy 49
Posts: 136
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Re: Head on collision
On an overnight passage from the BVI to St Maarten two nights ago we were sailing on starboard and another sailboat (also on starboard) was overtaking us from the lee and pointing higher creating a collision risk. I was off watch when the crew woke me and we were already very close and collision was very high risk. AIS CPA was under 60’
I hailed them on vhf at 500 yards and they asked if we were under sail. When I confirmed they then headed up further to avoid collision. We were on wind vane auto pilot mode at 40 degree AWA. Suggesting to me that they were motoring or motor sailing.
While they did not admit fault, it seems to me that they did not see us and/or were not monitoring AIS.
Even when you are stand on vessel, you have to take responsibility for your own vessels safety and assume that other boats are not always standing watch adequately.
Scary stuff.
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04-02-2025, 08:07
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#75
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Registered User
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Florida
Posts: 221
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Re: Head on collision
As one insurance expert told me years ago: “you are always covered for acts of God and acts of stupidity”
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