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captain58sailin · 01-06-2009, 01:48

My parents were talking about this very same thing back in the mid-70s, not that it is not just as relevant today, I just keep wondering when the hammer is going to fall for real; if ever. I am with folks who will be self reliant. What are real needs versus what are perceived needs are two very different things. I keep wanting to go somewhere and be a beach bum and fish from a outrigger canoe and spend my days in a hammock under a palm tree, I have seen places where one can do that, yet I have not made the leap of faith required to live that lifestyle. One has to have a safety net, health care, retirement, etc... we all throw obstacles up for ourselves to prevent us from having the life of Riley, the ones who have figured that out; are already doing it and will not be online anytime soon. The rest of us have to wake up and free ourselves.

**Ex-Calif** · 01-06-2009, 02:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Panamajames

Forget central American and northern South America. Too many bad guys to murder, pillage and rape.

Absolutely - I have no time to murder, pillage and rape bad guys.

I am in SEA and too busy fishing for my supper.

**Ex-Calif** · 01-06-2009, 02:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by captain58sailin

My parents were talking about this very same thing back in the mid-70s, not that it is not just as relevant today, I just keep wondering when the hammer is going to fall for real; if ever.

A lot of this discussion is circling around either crime - i.e. desperate poor people will steal from me - or where will my buck/Euro/GBP or whatever last the longest.

The other thought is about health care.

It's interesting that the things we worry about (or are told to worry about) are the things that are surfacing in this topic.

In the case of a true armaggedon, terminator world type melt down, with a valueless dollar, I suggest you stay home. Imagine the US during the depression. Our current prosperous paradigms cannot comprehend poverty on that scale.

No matter what citizenship you are you will be more welcome to avail of social systems in your home country than anywhere else. If you do have purchasing power, and remember I am talking about a world where the dollar is worthless, you would be welcome, but if you don't have money for goods you won't be welcome anywhere. Even if you do plan to just fish their waters and eat their bananas.

The good news is that I pretty much believe that a true global depression is not possible today. Even the US recession that is on now as painful as it is for many who have lost their jobs is no where near the meltdown that was predicted.

The banks are talking about paying back their TARP and the signs are we will recover. GM will likely fall and as a capitalist I think they probably should.

The issue is that the United States needs to reform retirement funding. Having a "fully funded" retirement plan is useless as long as the company has the right to use it in times of duress. That money should be fully funded and out of reach of the company.

Christian Van H · 01-06-2009, 06:27

Wonderful post, Ex-Calif! Total agreement here. Two things I truly cant understand; that companies can lose our retirement monies, and that they can change our benefits AFTER we've worked for them for YEARS.

Hampus · 01-06-2009, 07:35

I don't know why I keep coming back to read this thread, as it always makes me worried and depressed. Sitting here in the cockpit, sun shining with a gentle warm breeze, listening to people laughing on the dock and watching boats coming and going, it's extremely hard to imagine a global collapse being imminent. I don't really beleive that it will come to that, but just hearing on the radio the latest news about GM, I do beleive that things will get a whole lot worse before they get a whole lot better. Selling our apartment and the old boat would pay our mortage and set us off cruising for several years. The problem, I guess, is daring to take the step. Maybe coming back in 5 years with no job and just enough money to cover the downpayment on a small house, or maybe no money at all is freightening. Retirement is still 36 years away so even after sailing for 5 years, I'd have to find a new job to get us through the next 31 years... Tricky tricky... And the girlfriend needs to be in on it too. There are so many whats, ifs and maybes. Hell, we might not even be a live tomorrow...

cooper · 01-06-2009, 07:45

Quote:

No matter what citizenship you are you will be more welcome to avail of social systems in your home country than anywhere else. If you do have purchasing power, and remember I am talking about a world where the dollar is worthless, you would be welcome, but if you don't have money for goods you won't be welcome anywhere. Even if you do plan to just fish their waters and eat their bananas.

..WHat? and what ?

If the dollars is not worth anything then nor is the social system that relies on the dollar...or do you have blind faith? If you have nothing to offer in REAL TERMS why would you be accepted? the rest is ....odd and confusing...

phew I will go back into hiding for another few months..

**Ex-Calif** · 01-06-2009, 08:39

Cooper - What was left unsaid in the interest of brevity is that if the US truly melts down the rest of the world is going to be in the same condition.

Thinking that you can pitch up penniless in a foreign country and camp out is probably not a good plan.

The depression fathered many of the social systems that exist in the US today. I'm not saying the net will be good or painless. But your home net is the only one likely to do anything for you.

fairwinds · 03-06-2009, 05:13

IMO in Ireland the system has now completely broken down. Our government have just agreed to pay to shore up one of our banks €12,500, for every man woman and child in the country and the bank will be back for more. We are already supporting the rest of the banking system here.

We did not have a referendum to agree to this the government just did this. We will vent our anger on them in the election of Friday for local government and Europe.

The common people of Ireland have lost their jobs, their houses, farms, and businesses; they have every obstacle put in their way to receive social benefits, or to obtain training or work of any kind. I moved her in the 80's when things were very bad in Ireland; this is a lot worse and getting worse.

I have lost €200 pw in my weekly wage; no I am not high paid, in fact I would be on a very small wage.

IMO the capitalist structures are now dead, the banks de-funked and no one can see the emperor is naked.

I already produce all my own food and fuel, if I did not I would have lost my farm and cottage. Next year out income tax and other government levies will increase.

captsam54 · 14-08-2009, 08:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by captain58sailin

My parents were talking about this very same thing back in the mid-70s, not that it is not just as relevant today, I just keep wondering when the hammer is going to fall for real; if ever. I am with folks who will be self reliant. What are real needs versus what are perceived needs are two very different things. I keep wanting to go somewhere and be a beach bum and fish from a outrigger canoe and spend my days in a hammock under a palm tree, I have seen places where one can do that, yet I have not made the leap of faith required to live that lifestyle. One has to have a safety net, health care, retirement, etc... we all throw obstacles up for ourselves to prevent us from having the life of Riley, the ones who have figured that out; are already doing it and will not be online anytime soon. The rest of us have to wake up and free ourselves.

Nice.. You read my mind... As for sailing away... ABC islands off Venezuela.(no Hurricanes). Islands in the BVI's, and certain islands in the windward chain.. San Blas is a good "drop entirely out of site" choice. I do like Panama.(no Hurricanes). The South Pacific for real adventures..

I love this thread but not all the money bickering..

captain58sailin · 14-08-2009, 09:50

It is not about the money, it is about the head space for me, somewhere along the way I picked up a thought pattern that I had to have enough money for my old age. So until I get in a position that will allow me as much down time as I can have with out having to earn a wage to keep me supplied in diesel or parts ect... I will stay in the harness and keep putting the money aside, which in the real picture is ridiculous, but I have sold myself on the ideal. I guess somewhere along the way personal comfort to some degree became important. I like Venezuela very much, I spent 3 weeks on Isla Margarita, not some place I would want to live permanently, but a nice place to visit. For me, I think I will aim at the south pacific, I like the weather around the Tropic of Capricorn or the Tropic of Cancer areas as far as latitude goes, there are a lot of islands in the south pacific that don't have anyone on them that might be a nice place to hang. If one gets lonely for company, one could always sail over to an inhabited island for a little personal interaction.

osirissail · 15-08-2009, 21:37

Seriously, if something should happen, the best place is the closest to the eastern USA. The Dominican Republic. It is a very poor country with lots of farmers and very inexpensive real estate. The people are poor but proud and should a collapse happen they cannot fall any further that they are already. You can eat for $3 day and live in your boat for $15/month. Lots of things to do from horse back riding, hiking, mountain climbing, white water rafting and just sitting on beaches and getting too much UV on your eyes watching the trim and fit young men and women. Lots of eye candy.

Pelagic · 15-08-2009, 22:17

Places like this……

YouTube - Xtreme Fishing in Yap

only with a little bit of moderation in how much you catch

captsam54 · 16-08-2009, 07:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by osirissail

Seriously, if something should happen, the best place is the closest to the eastern USA. The Dominican Republic. .

True.. i have friends that love it's offbeat and cheap assets.. Also heard other interesting things about the people there..lol

.

3rd world economy and infrastructure is right..

BUT still in the hurricane belt..

zeehag · 16-08-2009, 08:54

everything is gonna fall apart---so------JUST GO!!!!! fish for yer dinner and just go...have fun!!!! there is no such thing as a safety net----just GO!!!!! (i will be right behind ye!!!!)