Going Uninsured !?

[lordgeoff]

I would agree if it is your life savings in the boat then I would insure also. As I said earlier, the problem I had was that insurance for my boat (50 ft) came with a lot of conditions probably because I was going to cross the Atlantic and pacific.

[barnakiel]

I think it is better to be fully insured. **** happens.

b.

[rebel heart]

Funny enough I was over at a boat insurance place today helping out my friend who left on the Haha. The broker got a policy out the door for my friend in 20 minutes for a really reasonable rate (Mexican liability).

His name is George Lindley, #619-222-2560. Really nice guy, they are exclusively boat people, and he's been working in the industry for decades. Email is glindley@dksmarineinsurance.com . Really nice guy; I'd give him a call if you're looking for something.

If you call him, say you got the number from Eric K at Sun Harbor Marina.

[jackiepitts]

[QUOTE=svHyLyte;547513]Sven,

"Replacement Value" is meaningless. It is essentially the current cost of a new boat similar to the boat surveyed. It really has nothing to do with the current actual value of your boat which, frankly, has little to do with how much money you may pump ito it. People frequently spend more on restoring/improving a boat/house/car than the darnned things are "worth" for any number of reasons-none of which matter to the "market".
/QUOTE]

This is very true during the last survey our boats replacement value was 4 times the amount as current market value. The truth is the boat is worth current market value (not replacement value) and there is no way a insurance company would insure us for replacement value.
I understand not wanting to spend the money on insurance as we have talked about self insuring several times but when we took a lightning strike this past summer and the repair bill closed in at 20K you better bet we were happy to have insurance....something to think about.
Jackie

[Khagan1227]

is that if you own an older boat (20+) and it is paid for, most would get liability only. If the boat is all you own, or a newer boat, get full coverage.

Fortunately, I too can have USAA cover my personal property, so that will help my situation.

I guess when I buy my cruiser, I'll have to see what restrictions the insurance company will place on my cruising and make my decision based on that.

Just out of curiosity, how much IS liabilty coverage on a 20 year old, 40 footish boat? I'm just looking for ball park.

Great topic, the points of view are very helpful.

K

[SvenG]

This has been a very useful discussion.

It is still intuitively annoying that one can't (affordably) insure for replacement value; have enough money to replace what was lost if it hits the fan. Real life gets in the way sometimes so we'll just have to accept that.

With the above said we may still find what we are looking for, or close to it. I do have my hopes up but it will take some investigating.

If we can't get close to what we are looking for we'll take the advice of still going "fully" insured the first year in case the keel should fall off (we have an internal/encapsulated keel) or some such unknown problem.

After that we'll stick with liability.

I wonder what the real loss statistics are. If they are much lower than what the insurers premiums cover it might be worthwhile to investigate the creation of a cruisers' non-profit insurance co-op.



-Sven

[SailFastTri]

[QUOTE=jackiepitts;547821]

Originally Posted by svHyLyte

Sven,

"Replacement Value" is meaningless. It is essentially the current cost of a new boat similar to the boat surveyed. It really has nothing to do with the current actual value of your boat which, frankly, has little to do with how much money you may pump ito it. People frequently spend more on restoring/improving a boat/house/car than the darnned things are "worth" for any number of reasons-none of which matter to the "market".
/QUOTE]

This is very true during the last survey our boats replacement value was 4 times the amount as current market value. The truth is the boat is worth current market value (not replacement value) and there is no way a insurance company would insure us for replacement value.
I understand not wanting to spend the money on insurance as we have talked about self insuring several times but when we took a lightning strike this past summer and the repair bill closed in at 20K you better bet we were happy to have insurance....something to think about.
Jackie

What you want is "agreed value". "Market value" is what the insurer says it's worth at time of loss, after depreciation. NFW do you want that! The insurance company won't give you "replacement value" and they don't write that in any policy. "Agreed value" is determined at the time the policy is written.

[Reckless]

Originally Posted by Khagan1227

Just out of curiosity, how much IS liabilty coverage on a 20 year old, 40 footish boat? I'm just looking for ball park.

K

You are best to get a personal liability policy to cover you and your family, regardless of the boat. It will cover any liability both on and off the boat. In Ontario, Canada these policies are usually included in any property policy that you have or can be added for under $200 for $1-2 million in coverage.

Prior claims history, lifestyle etc will all come into factor but that should be a ball park. I personally have $5 million coverage for me and my family of 5, and it is $278 a year.

[osirissail]

You will find that a liability policy on a vessel is going to be a lot more than US$278 per year. For USA boats the process involves a normal "full" insurance type survey and paperwork. Then the policy comes back as "liability-only." Size, age, crew, and use area will all vary the premium. On a 50ft 35 year old sailboat the amount was about US$1K per year.
- - Personal liability coverage is a different animal and covers things you do or are involved in. Your boat can be sitting in jackstands while you are a thousand miles away. Then it falls off the jackstands and damages the boat next to your boat. This is what vessel liability insurance primarily covers. Your auto/home/personal liability policies cover things that you or your family do that causes damage to somebody's property, etc. It is a grey area about who covers what, so you have to really examine the fine print very carefully in each policy.

[Reckless]

Originally Posted by osirissail

You will find that a liability policy on a vessel is going to be a lot more than US$278 per year. For USA boats the process involves a normal "full" insurance type survey and paperwork. Then the policy comes back as "liability-only." Size, age, crew, and use area will all vary the premium. On a 50ft 35 year old sailboat the amount was about US$1K per year.
- - Personal liability coverage is a different animal and covers things you do or are involved in. Your boat can be sitting in jackstands while you are a thousand miles away. Then it falls off the jackstands and damages the boat next to your boat. This is what vessel liability insurance primarily covers. Your auto/home/personal liability policies cover things that you or your family do that causes damage to somebody's property, etc. It is a grey area about who covers what, so you have to really examine the fine print very carefully in each policy.

Personal Liability will cover damage cause that I am legally liable for, my currently uninsured vehicle sitting in my driveway I forget to put the parking break on and it rolls back onto the road and hits the neighbors vehicle. I won't have coverage for my car but the damage to the neighbors vehicle would be covered under my liability policy, and this is worldwide coverage.

I am in Canada so things may be different in the US, but for my $278 a year, myself, my family and my property are covered for liability. My insurer is fully aware of my boat, where I sail, how frequently I sail as well as all other vehicles I own. I had one claim 2 years ago when my son backed our boat into another boat and caused some paint damage, it was covered no problems.

I have done some work to my boat and purchased a new outboard, and electronics so I have added full coverage to my current homeowners policy which covers me for up to $10k for the boat and $2 million liability, I also have a personal policy for an additional $5million. I did this mainly because I have heard of some boats being robbed and set adrift in my area. This change only made a $178 a year difference on my policy in addition to the $278 for my liability policy.

Again things may be different in Canada, but I would suggest speaking to your home insurance provider about liability coverage, it is significantly cheaper then getting a specialized marine policy. If you are looking to cover liability only. Age of the vessel makes no difference when it come to negligence and liability. Claims history and skill will however make a difference.

[osirissail]

Originally Posted by Reckless

. . . Again things may be different in Canada, but I would suggest speaking to your home insurance provider about liability coverage, it is significantly cheaper then getting a specialized marine policy. If you are looking to cover liability only. Age of the vessel makes no difference when it come to negligence and liability. Claims history and skill will however make a difference.

Things are different in Canada and they are different in most other countries of the world. Probably one of the worst and most expensive places to be from and insure is the USA and its "sue you" habit if you pass gas that offends somebody.
- - So your advice to check with a reputable agent is dead on accurate. In the case of USA citizens/boats the I.M.I.S. agency is about the best place for getting solid advice.
- - Unfortunately a lot of auto/home/personal insurance companies do not extend their coverages out of their country's borders. So what one of these agents might tell you could be not quite accurate as they have little or no experience with international or maritime situations. It is supposed to be defined in the policy conditions - but sometimes those sections are less than clear on the subject.

[muskoka]

We paid 0.9% of the boats value for comprehensive (coastal cruising).

We've just upgraded to a comprehensive bluewater cruising package which is about 1.125% of the boats value. There were no conditions on number of crew but we did have to submit documentation of our qualifications (Yachtmaster, Red Cross, Radio, Safety at Sea, etc.).

Is insurance worth it?

Well, IMHO third party liability is a must - too many POS boats end up blowing off their moorings in a storm and they head right for the most expensive boat in the anchorage! Not to mention accidents which may result in injury or death.

As to whether comprehensive is worth it - well, I don't have the actual breakdown of what proportion is replacement versus liability, but, the premium to go from liability to full comprehensive is less than 1%. Which seems reasonable. So, if I don't wreck my boat in about 50+ years of sailing then I've overpaid the insurance company.

I will post my followup in 2060....

[gpshephe]

But , correct me if I'm wrong, if you sail more than 75 miles offshore your uncovered. So from Pennsylvania stay close to shore until you get past Florida, then your uncovered until you hit Puerto Rico, then uncovered until you hit USVI. I was told I have to have some kind of off shore Marine insurance with a different boker. This is of course if you're going to go blue water cruising.

[gpshephe]

sorry this was meant for Pete7

[lateral]

My boat was fully insured, basically to get in marinas, but as soon as I started the rebuild they didn't want to know. Apparently too many claims during rebuilds.
So I voted no insurance. I would have at least liability insurance on the water.

Its a scam alright. "Oh, but we provide a service." They are all over you like a rash
to sign you up & an a hint of a claim & out with the fine print. "Oh but you didn't have your rig certified every year, or your insurance is void if you sail closer than a mile from a lee shore."