Going Uninsured !?

[Rakuflames]

Originally Posted by capstan

Maybe I should clarify. If you have a million dollars insurance, they will sue you for a million dollars, and "settle" for half of that.

Only if they have an extremely good case against you or your insurance company has a very bad lawyer. Since the second scenario is unlikely, the fault will lie at your feet.

[Rakuflames]

Originally Posted by zeehag

raku--where t...h....is anyone gonna collide in the middle of the ocean when on watch with eyes open... drink the coolade and keep usa healthcare prices outrageously high and insurance lobby open for fleecing all forever.
i use liability only where is necessary and not under normal circumstances.
i was taught correctly how to use a sailboat and i donot place my home(boat) into jeopardy.
please forgive me for having to have belly laughs at your expense at your response.

Where did I say it would happen in the middle of the ocean?

[saylor240]

No one has discussed the obvious reason one would get insurance...Fraud...My buddies father, over insured his boat. when he wanted a new one, he and some guys took it out in the woods, dug a huge hole and buried it, reported it stolen, and then the next month he got a check, and went out and got a brand new boat. So there is "other" reasons to get insurance, However i would never be involved in or recommend fraud! I personally think fraud is the number one reason insurance rates are so high in the first place. USA is Sue happy...it seems like a free pay day..We need Tort Reform and sue limits so people don't get millions for spilling Hot coffee on their own laps....or the guy who just sued Starbucks for slipping on the floor and got 7 million.... something is just wrong there..

[Triton318]

Originally Posted by Seahunter

Unlicensed + unregistered + unsurveyed + uninsured (boat) = navigation hazard.

Can you please explain what you mean by "unlicensed"? Also, my boat is USCG documented, not registered. How does being registered make you less of a navigation hazard? And what exactly do you mean by "unsurveyed"? Are you suggesting that no one should operate a boat unless it has been surveyed by a licensed marine surveyor?

[Seahunter]

Originally Posted by delmarrey

The problem is; boat insurance is not like home or car. It's highly restricted and very seldom pays off what you've lost. Liability seems to be the only way to go unless you have a brand new boat.

Insurance is insurance, it is like your car or home. It's all in the fine print and the adage, "buyer beware". It's important to know what you're purchasing before you lay out the cash and to negotiate your premiums. If insurance underwriting wasn't so effective, there'd be no lawyers.

[Seahunter]

Originally Posted by Triton318

Can you please explain what you mean by "unlicensed"? Also, my boat is USCG documented, not registered. How does being registered make you less of a navigation hazard? And what exactly do you mean by "unsurveyed"? Are you suggesting that no one should operate a boat unless it has been surveyed by a licensed marine surveyor?

"Documentation" is just another word for "registered". Most insurance companies require some sort of "documentation" as well as a recent survey if you're looking for full coverage. As well, if you upgrade or refit your boat for more than 20K, you'll need to resurvey your boat to upgrade your coverage. while some companies like Travelers require a more substantial upgrade. As for operating a boat; every boater must have a quantifiable level of competence. If this is some form of licensing or training, sobeit. My comment was based upon the cumulative effect "+" of each aspect, any one of them may not be that important, but combined is a recipe for trouble.

[Ex-Calif]

Clearly a hot topic.

There are meany things one can "self" insure. Almost all fall in the category of personal loss or hardship. Don't want to insure your boat for loss? Who cares? I don't. Don't have medical coverage? Your choice.

What I feel is reckless is not insuring for others loss caused by your mistakes or your assumed responsibility. It's not just hitting the mega yacht, scratches can be painted. But if you take crew on board you should have liability coverage.

We have all read the "ridiculous" settlements. That's the one percent often turned on appeal. The reality is played out millions of times a day. Someone suffers a loss, th nother person is responsible and the responsible parties insurance pays for remedy. Insurance companies have armies of lawyers too and don't pay million dollar claims that are not founded without a fight. If insurance companies bug you, maybe you should be redirecting the anger at the legal system.

Zee - You can be a super sailor and trained at slocum's knee for all I care. Live on a hook away from other people and you and your boat can do no harm. But Bad things happen to good people. If you enter a marina and have a power loss and crash into someone else's boat, or one of your crew is injured by your skippering you should have liability insurance.

If you don't and it is your fault they may come after the only asset you have. Your boat and home. I get people living on a budget may have to cut things out and insurance may be one of them. I sincerely hope that if by some act of God you damage someone's boat or hurt a crew you have the financial resources to make it right.

[conachair]

Originally Posted by Triton318

What does just uninsured + unlicensed + unsurveyed equal?

Quite a large proportion of bluewater sailors, especially off the beaten track.

[Pete7]

Originally Posted by IslandHopper

Interesting idea, a P&I club for Yachties.....

Shipping companies have been doing it for years, i am sure with a bit of modifying by someone who knows the ins and out's it could be made to work....

Protection and indemnity insurance - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

As one of the original members of a UK inflatable boat owners association we approached an insurer with about 50 boats needing cover. The deal was an extra large discount in return for the promise of no dodgy claims, which since we new each other wasn't a problem. Worked well for about 5 years until club numbers rose and and the claims started.

Pete

[SimonV]

If you are uninsured and your boat gets damaged by an insured boat, dont expect to get any renumeration. As an uninsured party you get no help when dealing with the other partys insurance provider, what are you going to do sue the insurance company..they have a lot more money than you ( or else you too would have insurance). Should you engage a lawyer he will get wealthy and you may still end up with nought.

[gpshephe]

Originally Posted by David_Old_Jersey

I will invest it . The return of 10% will be guaranteed .


In regard to 3rd party / liability only insurance.........I have not yet looked into the position for boats, but my motorbike (and car) insurance also has a seperate policy (different company - came from / sold by same broker) that covers legal costs for uninsured losses (i.e. don't have fully comp).

The idea being that if "you" cause damage to my motorbike / boat that legal action can be taken against you / your insurer (at no cost to myself) - doesn't guarantee that I will get everything I want and there will be limits on what and how the legal costs are spent........but it gives an option of seeking redress (if it's not a hit and run!). Someone / an insurance company finding out the other side has $100k or more to spend on legal fees (at not cost to self) is likely to focus the attention.

For the bike / car the premium is peanuts (I suspect the reason is that the lawyers involved also recover there costs from the other party).

Obviously not a solution for every circumstance, and I would still be carrying the risk myself for self sinking etc. But I can live with that.

10%, where?

[callmecrazy]

I got insured for two reasons.

1. As a noob sailor, my first year out, I was a little afraid I'd wreck into someone. Passed that test.... won't need it next year

2. Every marina I contacted required a certain amount of liability insurance.

I was able to insure my boat with both liability and pre-determined value for hull coverage, without a survey. I kept the hull-coverage low on purpose in order to not provoke a survey.

Do it all online, they don't ask questions.... The general consensus is, they'll ask for a survey next year... we'll see

Every marina I've been to (and all I've contacted) required proof of insurance. And one actually required themselves to be placed on the policy as an insured party.

Now, shopping for a boatyard, I'm finding people not only asking for liability, but they also want to know how much I'm covered comprehensively,... which doesn't make sense to me. But, who am I to argue?

I say, get insurance for stateside manners, if it happens to run dry while you're out cruising, so be it

[vcsmithuk]

Originally Posted by Seahunter

Uninsured, unlicensed, inexperienced, unsurveyed, unkempt = expensive + irresponsible.

Licensed (i.e. formal sailing qualifications for skipper and crew) + registered + 4 Atlantic crossings by skipper and 30 years experience + full and recent survey which confirmed boat was sound + brand new rigging + full restoration / refit by professional shipright BUT no one will provide insurance because boat too old / too small / not worth enough money = what? What else should you do in this case? Buy a different boat?!?!

What if you WANT insurance but no-one will give it to you? Even 3rd party? Do you not sail beyond your club moorings because it's "irresponsible"? Should we let insurance companies tell us what sort of boat is "appropriate" for cruising? What a crazy world that would be....

[Seahunter]

Originally Posted by vcsmithuk

What if you WANT insurance but no-one will give it to you? Even 3rd party? Do you not sail beyond your club moorings because it's "irresponsible"? Should we let insurance companies tell us what sort of boat is "appropriate" for cruising? What a crazy world that would be....

That's a really good question. I've experienced similar situations in the past; once with BoatUS. I shopped around until I found a broker that found a P&I company that would cover me. Age and material of the boat seems to be a factor that influences the aye or nay. One way around it is to employ a surveyor the insurance company or broker suggests. A lot of P&I companies even insist that you use their surveyor, especially if you're requesting an increase of coverage based on a refit or major upgrades. Ultimately there are cracks in any system, and some people fall through.

[Rakuflames]

Originally Posted by saylor240

No one has discussed the obvious reason one would get insurance...Fraud...My buddies father, over insured his boat. when he wanted a new one, he and some guys took it out in the woods, dug a huge hole and buried it, reported it stolen, and then the next month he got a check, and went out and got a brand new boat. So there is "other" reasons to get insurance, However i would never be involved in or recommend fraud! I personally think fraud is the number one reason insurance rates are so high in the first place. USA is Sue happy...it seems like a free pay day..We need Tort Reform and sue limits so people don't get millions for spilling Hot coffee on their own laps....or the guy who just sued Starbucks for slipping on the floor and got 7 million.... something is just wrong there..

That's the OBVIOUS reason? *I* am looking to commit fraud because I have insurance?

Gee -- I've owned a boat five years. Why haven't I done it yet? What the heck is WRONG with me???

One could argue that it's the people who are NOT insured who are likely to commit fraud. One bad incident on their boat, and what percentage of them would be backpedaling, making up alternate scenarios for what happening, and generally doing everything they can think of to squirm out of their suddenly huge financial responsibilities?

I'd like to see some evidence that the biggest contributor to insurance cost is fraud. My company says it's because I live in Florida, and having moved here right after Florida was hit by four storms in one year, followed by Katrina and Wilma, I rather suspect they're right.

So did anyone report burying that boat? Anyone who knew and didn't report it ALSO committed fraud.