Going Uninsured !?

[sailorboy1]

Originally Posted by David_Old_Jersey

I'm willing to hold the money

Hold it.........or spend it?

[MarkSF]

Originally Posted by nautical62

Rather than conclude insurance is not worth while, I'd consider finding an insurance company that will provide better coverage. I've insured 4 cruising boats now including a 1969 model and never had a company say they'd only insure 1/4 the value.

I'm paying 1.25 of the boat's value with State Farm, but just got a quote for 0.8% with Boat US. Why some posters think that's a con I don't know, seems pretty cheap to me, especially when you take into account the fact that I get $850,000 of spill liability insurance.

[David_Old_Jersey]

Originally Posted by Don Lucas

Hold it.........or spend it?

I will invest it . The return of 10% will be guaranteed .


In regard to 3rd party / liability only insurance.........I have not yet looked into the position for boats, but my motorbike (and car) insurance also has a seperate policy (different company - came from / sold by same broker) that covers legal costs for uninsured losses (i.e. don't have fully comp).

The idea being that if "you" cause damage to my motorbike / boat that legal action can be taken against you / your insurer (at no cost to myself) - doesn't guarantee that I will get everything I want and there will be limits on what and how the legal costs are spent........but it gives an option of seeking redress (if it's not a hit and run!). Someone / an insurance company finding out the other side has $100k or more to spend on legal fees (at not cost to self) is likely to focus the attention.

For the bike / car the premium is peanuts (I suspect the reason is that the lawyers involved also recover there costs from the other party).

Obviously not a solution for every circumstance, and I would still be carrying the risk myself for self sinking etc. But I can live with that.

[conachair]

Originally Posted by roverhi

Insuring a boat for long range cruising is not easy to get, is expensive, and not available for single handers under any circumstances.

Pantaneous do it. Though not sure if it would be available to US residents.

Insurance for sailing Yachts and Motor Boats by Pantaenius

from their FAQs

Do you have specific requirements for crew numbers?
No, not at all! We take each risk; boat type, size, cruising range etc. and relate this to the experience of the skipper. If we are satisfied the proposed crew can handle it, we will agree cover for short-handed or single-handed sailing.

For solo UK bluewater sailors they seem to be highly regarded, though maybe not the cheapest.

[zeehag]

i only bought mexican liability so i could enter mexico and check into ensenada and other ports. was/is a requirement.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by David_Old_Jersey

I will invest it . The return of 10% will be guaranteed .


In regard to 3rd party / liability only insurance.........I have not yet looked into the position for boats, but my motorbike (and car) insurance also has a seperate policy (different company - came from / sold by same broker) that covers legal costs for uninsured losses (i.e. don't have fully comp).

The idea being that if "you" cause damage to my motorbike / boat that legal action can be taken against you / your insurer (at no cost to myself) - doesn't guarantee that I will get everything I want and there will be limits on what and how the legal costs are spent........but it gives an option of seeking redress (if it's not a hit and run!). Someone / an insurance company finding out the other side has $100k or more to spend on legal fees (at not cost to self) is likely to focus the attention.

For the bike / car the premium is peanuts (I suspect the reason is that the lawyers involved also recover there costs from the other party).

Obviously not a solution for every circumstance, and I would still be carrying the risk myself for self sinking etc. But I can live with that.

Well a friend of mine here in Portugal has just got Liability, Personal and Legal Cover from a well known German company for just £156/annum...
Its a 1969 Contest 29...
I've used only them... good people

[avb3]

Originally Posted by conachair

Pantaneous do it. Though not sure if it would be available to US residents.

Insurance for sailing Yachts and Motor Boats by Pantaenius

I had a recent email exchange with Pantaneous and they do not insure anything in North America under a $1 million dollars (the value of the boat!)

That leaves most of us out.

[boatman61]

Guess their still pissed off with you guys...
Join Europe... it has its benefits...

[familycruisers]

Boat US not only is offering just liability, but is allowing a self survey to be completed since its not the vehicle they are insuring, its the operator.

[s/v Beth]

I brought up self insurance because we are in a similar situation as medical malpractice was a few years ago. The insurers just wouldn't cover us because of this and that. So we joined together and formed our own company and was a lot cheaper. Not only that, we insured what we did.
I don't like the idea of sailing off in the blue without insurance, but as mentioned before, most won't cover a solo multiple country navigator.
I think we would fill a need as show up all those business types. In spite of what was said earlier- it can be done.
So how?
Incorporation with minimal start up. We would handle the small losses ourselves, with the big losses insured in block by a large holding company (just like insurance companies do) but like REI used to be, we share the profits by cutting our rates.

[Pete7]

Originally Posted by avb3

I had a recent email exchange with Pantaneous and they do not insure anything in North America under a $1 million dollars (the value of the boat!) That leaves most of us out.

Interesting. I spoke with the Pantaneous UK boss a couple of years ago at a boat show as they were offering free coffee.

They would insure Viv and I to complete the ARC and return to UK, so a 1 year Atlantic circuit. He would split the insurance, 6 months EU cover and 6 months US cover including the crossings in between although he did point out the US part was much more expensive. Quote came in at $2300 for the year for £50k of notional yacht value.

Couple of interesting points. The boat needed to be worth a minimum of £50k for them to approach the underwriters, not a problem when you take into account personal items and stuff needed for a major trip. Husband and wife crew also no problem and they were pleased to see we planned on a 31 foot yacht which would be manageable. I think they had problems with small crews and large yachts in the past.

Pantaneous UK were also quite strict when we took out our current insurance with them. Recent survey and my comments on any recommendations needed was required. A sailing CV of qualifications and experience, photos of dinghy and outboard plus serial numbers. I don't have a problem with this, at least they are trying to assess the risk.

Pete

[Pete7]

Originally Posted by gpshephe

But , correct me if I'm wrong, if you sail more than 75 miles offshore your uncovered. So from Pennsylvania stay close to shore until you get past Florida, then your uncovered until you hit Puerto Rico, then uncovered until you hit USVI. I was told I have to have some kind of off shore Marine insurance with a different boker. This is of course if you're going to go blue water cruising.

Without looking, I think our EU cover is the Baltic to La Rochelle and 200 miles to the West. Think this is a fairly standard area for UK policies.

Pete

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by Pete7

Without looking, I think our EU cover is the Baltic to La Rochelle and 200 miles to the West. Think this is a fairly standard area for UK policies.

Pete

Yup.... coverage on my 331 ended 200 miles from St Vincente... and began again 200miles from Madeira.. same to the Azores and back...

[sailorboy1]

How many here really have a far reaching unlimited sailing policy as far was where you can go instead of a policy for the area you are realy in, and changing it as needed?

My policy is under 0.6% of insured value, but it only covers 7.5 monthes of use

[lateral]

Originally Posted by vcsmithuk

What if you just can't get insurance because your boat is too old or too small or not worth enough money and "you couldn't possibly cross an ocean in a boat like that"? Even though you've invested a small fortune in a refit and she's sounder than ever and you have every safety gadget under the sun on board. Do you not go cruising and just stay in the "safety" of the 12 mile limit (where frankly there's more to crash into)? And if a marina requires it, but there's nowhere to anchor as an alternative (even if the chart says there is!) what do you do? Catch 22.....

It will be interesting when I splash, re insurance. Surveyor said it was worth fixing initially, two visits down the track said it was toast.
So I rebuilt it from the keelson up to a combination of McNaughton & Gerr scantlings. I bet that won't impress them!
I would a thousand times rather put to sea in it now than before. The boats market value is probably no more than before even tho I have spent more than 3X the initial divestment.