Going Uninsured !?

[Mike OReilly]

I have a general dislike for the insurance industry. My observation (from personal and collective experiences) is that they systematically abuse their privileged position in our economy and society, not unlike banks, lawyers or a whole host of similarly avaricious folks. But my main beef around this whole issue is the way we are intentionally bamboozled and misled into seeing bogeymen everywhere. We are in such a state of fear that we willingly hand over gobs of money to these casino-owners.

Insurance is about mitigating risk, an activity I'm all for. Much of what we call "good seamanship" is really about risk mitigation. But effective risk mitigation means we need to rationally assessing risk. The problem is, we seem to have lost our ability to do this here in our rich, western societies.

Remember, Risk = (likelihood of event happening) X (consequences of event)

As I posted earlier, the likelihood of an adverse event happening in boating (based on actual data, not anecdotes, third-person stories, or gut feelings) is very low. Most of the bad things that do happen can be effectively mitigated by taking reasonable precautions (that old good seamanship thing again). Yes, unexpected **** happens sometimes, but unless you are sailing around the Horn, or through pirate alley, your real risk is very, very low.

But those who profit from our ignorance -- from having us live in fear -- have convinced everyone that sailing is such a dangerous activity, that we all must carry a thick cloak of financial protection everywhere we go. It's simply irrational, and ridiculous.

Please note, I'm not saying people shouldn't get insurance if they want it. Just like I'm fine with people buying lottery tickets or going to casinos; if that's how someone wants to spend their money, then that's just fine by me.

Just don't make me do it.

[hellosailor]

"I told them about the several hundred thousand in refit...they don't know - don't care... "
Every insurer follows some rules. Being forced to guess, I'd say your boat was formally written off as a total loss. Why your insurer walked away from that without paying you a cent, I would have to guess is because of some policy exclusion. Perhaps being in hurricane country when the policy said it couldn't be? Or being used for charter on a recreational policy? You don't say, but you must know.
If the boat was totalled, or you violated the policy, any insurer might walk away and stay away. I'm trying to see both sides but since you don't want to provide any details (your perogative) that leaves only guessing. I'm guessing your insurer said something like "That's against your policy, we're through with you." Whether they were fair or foul, well, you and they are the only ones who know that.

"Calling the head of claims a #@$#@$...?"
Now where did that come from ?

[AllezCat]

Originally Posted by hellosailor

"I told them about the several hundred thousand in refit...they don't know - don't care... "
Every insurer follows some rules. Being forced to guess, I'd say your boat was formally written off as a total loss. Why your insurer walked away from that without paying you a cent, I would have to guess is because of some policy exclusion. Perhaps being in hurricane country when the policy said it couldn't be? Or being used for charter on a recreational policy? You don't say, but you must know.
If the boat was totalled, or you violated the policy, any insurer might walk away and stay away. I'm trying to see both sides but since you don't want to provide any details (your perogative) that leaves only guessing. I'm guessing your insurer said something like "That's against your policy, we're through with you." Whether they were fair or foul, well, you and they are the only ones who know that.

"Calling the head of claims a #@$#@$...?"
Now where did that come from ?

actually I called him a baby - because he was acting like one...

you are doing a lot of guessing.
my posts in this thread are not about my previous insurance company.
only about trying to get new insurance, after my previous policy expired. Perhaps they all think the boat is far too damaged. But nobody told me.

Guessing about what they did, or didn't do is not going to go anywhere...And you are making statements from thin air about facts that you know nothing about. SO leave the old insurance until we are done.

The issue is new insurance. And could be denied for any reason stated above - or something else. But, I will not lose sleep over it...I am at best ambivalent about coverage.

My boat is a 10 year old Catana 582 - $2.5? million new.
much new stuff during refit - almost ready to splash.

For someone that admits they are crooks - you really seem to be an advocate of insurance guys "it could only be a violation of policy" - but you are definitely barking up the wrong tree about something that didn't happen, in most of what you have written.
So please don't ask any more questions about it or offer up strings of "facts" and scenarios that have no meaning - unless you wish to do it in a deposition...

[tager]

Gosh, you two argue like children!

[Coachbolt61]

Originally Posted by tager

Gosh, you two argue like children!

But he started it!!!!!
Smiles. :-p

[Mr B]

Originally Posted by Coachbolt61

But he started it!!!!!
Smiles. :-p

Hahahahaha

[osirissail]

Originally Posted by AllezCat

I tried again to get insurance:
Called Boat US - they denied coverage due to "...condition of the vessel".
hmmm.
My boat was damaged while being hauled. My insurance was involved. but paid nothing and only made matters worse. The yard is repairing the damage.
But seems I am blacklisted now...
As others have pointed out - insurance is a scam - they may help once - but then you are done.
Boat US offered 100,000, 300,000, or 500,000 liability. . . .

You left a few important things out of your recitation - which is why most folks have to assume a lot of things which may or may not be relevant. Leaving stuff out is very common in a forum type situation where it seems the primary objective, subconsciously, is to "vent/rant" about a particular perceived evil - "insurance is a scam." So don't get upset if somebody expresses their opinions on a situation when they have minimal and usually slanted information from a poster.

There is no such thing as being "blacklisted," etc. "Evil conspiracies" are really just in the eye of the beholder.

What you left out that was very important were two things - 1. Was the boat properly repaired by a professional repair facility prior to applying for insurance? And 2- Was the boat surveyed by a professional recognized surveyor after the damage was repaired, and the surveyor declared the work adequate and boat was again seaworthy?

Without these two things I really don't think any insurance company is going to write a new policy on a boat. I wouldn't blame them as there is existing damage and the boat is not "seaworthy."

As to Liability - $300K is the industry standard and if you want more you will just have to pay considerably more money in premiums. I increased my old $300K liability to $500K and the premium increased by 50%. So taking that up arithmetically - $1 million would be nearly 4 times the cost. That would be getting rather expensive and I could guess that few insurance companies would write that without also writing comprehensive along with it. The easiest way to get the high liability coverage is with an "Umbrella Policy" from your land/home/auto based insurance company.

[defever]

i have been cruising/living aboard for 20 years on my 41' trawler and been uninsured since the hurricanes of '04 (price/deductible went outa sight) and now think about liability only. where can one buy it and approx. cost (fl/bahamas cruising)