Going Uninsured !?

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by dana-tenacity

Back to the original post (whilst still claiming to be a huge fan of socialised medicine). If you ask anyone who was cruising long distances in the 70's and 80's (or earlier), insurance was unheard of. This is a modern development.

Was a time the Skipper did not need a passport either...
ships papers and 'book' would serve...
ahhh the Glory Days

[Mr B]

Originally Posted by Rakuflames

Two realistic worries in marinas: beginners, as you said ...

AND ...

experienced people in the habit of bringing their boats in too fast.

Steering can fail, and transmission-related things can fail. Engines can fail.

Ive had all three,

Blocked filter, Motor stopped, No wind, Right on the turn of the shipping channel and drifting across it, Lucky no ships came,

Steering crapped out, Jury rigged steering to get me to a beach so I could fix it, Lucky I had a spare on board that could be fixed and used,

Gear lever dropped off the gearbox, Leaving the dock, Lucky, I got it retied to the dock before I got into trouble,

And worse, Dragging anchors,

And all that in less than 3 months.

[kellyp08]

Friends
I am moving my boat to Mallorca, Spain for a while. Other posts have said that in the Med you need some documentation that you have liability insurance at the least. That's my understanding also. However, I've been getting the run around by an American company that has insured my boat ($3500 annual premium) for the 6 years I've owned her; and insured my previous boat for an additional 15 years (annual premium then about $2500). All I want is liability insurance for the Med. I've tried USAA (I'm a Vietnam Vet) - they weren't interested and have recommended Progressive - they are more comfortable with US based motor boats. There was a British Insurance company (through RYA) but they were not willing to insure an American flagged vessel. Does anyone have any recommendations for a company that will insure a boat for liability only in the Med ? (I'm willing to self-insure for everything else - I just need a paper that says I have liability insurance )

[MacG]

Finding an outside Insurance Coy might be very difficult due to the American flag. In case of any dispute they have to law in the US and that is sheer financial suicide. Liability is the biggest riskfactor - the boat is not.

[Mr B]

Originally Posted by kellyp08

Friends
I am moving my boat to Mallorca, Spain for a while. Other posts have said that in the Med you need some documentation that you have liability insurance at the least. That's my understanding also. However, I've been getting the run around by an American company that has insured my boat ($3500 annual premium) for the 6 years I've owned her; and insured my previous boat for an additional 15 years (annual premium then about $2500). All I want is liability insurance for the Med. I've tried USAA (I'm a Vietnam Vet) - they weren't interested and have recommended Progressive - they are more comfortable with US based motor boats. There was a British Insurance company (through RYA) but they were not willing to insure an American flagged vessel. Does anyone have any recommendations for a company that will insure a boat for liability only in the Med ? (I'm willing to self-insure for everything else - I just need a paper that says I have liability insurance )

Try this company, My boat was insured by the previous owner,
An American who lived on the boat permanently in Hawaii, Tonga and Fiji for the last 7 years,
On an American registered boat with an American Captain insured in Australia and in Fiji,

The insurance was for Fijian Coastal waters only.

PSC Coastwide Insurance Brokers, Bundall Queensland, Australia,

[sic5y360]

There should be a boat owners co-operative insurance company whereby the claims made are limited to a ratio of the premiums received in any given year, i.e natural tragedy strikes and 100 mill in claims but only 10 mill in premiums, then the ins co-op only pays 10%. Also the insurance could have a simple structure, minimum liability a priority, contents, then the premium is rated in blocks of 10,000 value, the more you rate the value, the more you pay. High (25,000) deductible on claims and the total value payout limited to a total loss. (should be structured that you cannot make scam money, i.e. payout below replacement value) Once the fund becomes large, the insured who have 10 years or more should get huge premium discounts, hedged against the fund) I dunno, I am not an insurance expert, but if all the boaters pooled their money in a fund they would be a lot better off, agreed?

Perhaps the fund could also act as an investment club for those seeking good returns on their money (thus solving some investment/income problems for cruisers) This could work in the following way. You get insurance for 100K but your vessel is worth 125. You invest 25 k in the insurance company who invests it on your behalf sending you annual returns, resulting in premium discounts. Then if you should have a total loss, you can claim your 100K and take your 25k investment back to receive the total value you need for replacement)

Premiums and claims could be administered by the salty wise who cannot be fooled, those who are already cruisers = part time income for them and reduced costs for all because you cant kid a kidder or steal from a theif, or fool a sailor at his own game.

[hellosailor]

Fifty, if the company didn't guarantee to pay out 100% of the liability claims, then it wouldn't be insuring for the full amount, and no marina would accept the policy. Then too you probably would have some fun with insurance regulators if you tried to offer a new product that didn't pay the stated value of policies and claims in any way.

Of course if you can run that past your regulators, it is a novel idea. You've got a business opportunity.

[MacG]

It wouldn' t work. There are certain laws in most of the European countries that require a minimal guarantee of of 2 million E per happening.
The sheer fact that there are sailors going around uninsured - liability - could lead to criminal charges in some European countries.

[kellyp08]

Fifty - There happens to be a 50'wooden ketch that recently sunk in the harbor of Port de Soller, Mallorca, Spain. She seemed to be in sound structural condition but very neglected for some time. You might have to have it raised (or maybe they've done this already). But you could get it for a song (or less). BTW - love your insurance idea.

[sic5y360]

Originally Posted by hellosailor

Fifty, if the company didn't guarantee to pay out 100% of the liability claims, then it wouldn't be insuring for the full amount, and no marina would accept the policy. Then too you probably would have some fun with insurance regulators if you tried to offer a new product that didn't pay the stated value of policies and claims in any way.

Of course if you can run that past your regulators, it is a novel idea. You've got a business opportunity.

Like any fledgeling idea, they all have their kinks to work out. But I did intend that the liability factor was fully covered, just not the Comp. So if your boat did damage to others or to the marina itself, it would pay out. My limits would be on the value part of the policy itself giving some peace of mind. Lord knows most of us seem to be over insured on most things yet are terrified (and justly punished if we do) of making any kind of claim.

"Honest is always the best policy~ it just costs you more"

[sic5y360]

Originally Posted by MacG

It wouldn' t work.

Pretty much what Steve Jobs and any other visionary was told when they first did a napkin sketch of their new ideas.

First of all, cut all the fat and profit out of the insurance companies by having an owner owned company. That will work, the rest is just the details, how to bring the best value and product to the customer.

[David_Old_Jersey]

Originally Posted by fifty360

Pretty much what Steve Jobs and any other visionary was told when they first did a napkin sketch of their new ideas.

First of all, cut all the fat and profit out of the insurance companies by having an owner owned company. That will work, the rest is just the details, how to bring the best value and product to the customer.

One thing acting as a Broker (I think merit in that approach by parcelling up folk - but same old story, everyone loves a good idea until it comes to putting hand in pocket ), another thing entirely becoming an insurance company - the regulations alone would make yer brain melt , and that's before going international (and crossing State Lines?)....and that will not be a part time job for someone sitting on a boat in the sun.

The problem is a question of scale - small boats travelling internationally just don't have the numbers.

All IMO of course

[sic5y360]

Originally Posted by kellyp08

Fifty - There happens to be a 50'wooden ketch that recently sunk in the harbor of Port de Soller, Mallorca, Spain. She seemed to be in sound structural condition but very neglected for some time. You might have to have it raised (or maybe they've done this already). But you could get it for a song (or less). BTW - love your insurance idea.

interested to know more, but I doubt I would want a boat that sank, I dunno........

I also dont want a project boat where I need to suspend another 2 years of my life working towards my goal. (Maintenance is one thing, a refit is quite another) Prefer to find one that has experience and is outfitted out well. Then sail and live the life.

[Paul L]

Originally Posted by fifty360

interested to know more, but I doubt I would want a boat that sank, I dunno........

I also dont want a project boat where I need to suspend another 2 years of my life working towards my goal. (Maintenance is one thing, a refit is quite another) Prefer to find one that has experience and is outfitted out well. Then sail and live the life.

A classic wooden boat is by definition a labor of love, with the operable word being labor. They are all project boats.

[Rakuflames]

Originally Posted by Mr B

Ive had all three,

Blocked filter, Motor stopped, No wind, Right on the turn of the shipping channel and drifting across it, Lucky no ships came,

Steering crapped out, Jury rigged steering to get me to a beach so I could fix it, Lucky I had a spare on board that could be fixed and used,

Gear lever dropped off the gearbox, Leaving the dock, Lucky, I got it retied to the dock before I got into trouble,

And worse, Dragging anchors,

And all that in less than 3 months.

Whoa -- action-packed!!!