Going Uninsured !?

[captainbri]

Originally Posted by atoll

welcome to the real world, fact;somalia has 4 doctors for every 100,000 people!!

A friend of mine was sick in a country with socialized medicine (and that is what he supported for the usa) we walked in to the hospital and he decided he would rather be sick, i told him to stay and that it would be a great experience it would be. He declined lol

[Ram]

Originally Posted by captainbri

A friend of mine was sick in a country with socialized medicine (and that is what he supported for the usa) we walked in to the hospital and he decided he would rather be sick, i told him to stay and that it would be a great experience it would be. He declined lol

Last year while in Greece I went in to the ER room and was tested for many things, ekg , blood tests,ect. went through several tests and when I left after being seen by 2-3 MDs it was found that i was dehydrated then I when to pay the bill and it was 56 euro- while the hospital itself was not as up to date and fancy as the ones in America I was well taken care of and the price was right- this would have cost well over 1000 Euros had I been in a US hospital-American health care needs a big change or soon no one will be able to pay the costs of health care

[David_Old_Jersey]

Originally Posted by atoll

welcome to the real world, fact;somalia has 4 doctors for every 100,000 people!!

but a helluva lot of Witch Doctors .

[David_Old_Jersey]

Originally Posted by captainbri

My wife was just at one of those hospitals for food poisoning, here are the accommodation. there was a large room with 30 patients in it, it should be for 20 patients, plus the family members that made about 60 people in the hospital room. family is there because there is only 2 nurses, the floor might be good to sleep on but not for me, my wife was out in the hall way with about 20 other patients in beds and another 7 individuals sleeping next to the patients on the floor. that is socialized medicine, when i had my eye surgery it was a private hospital, And there are few hospitals with the accommodation and service that I had.

For me full coverage would depend on risk of what I am willing to lose and value of what I have. I would at least have liability insurance.

But to be fair, Thailand is a 3rd world country (just fairly well veneered) - and for the average Joe (i.e. potless) the hospital system is vastly better than they had even 10 / 15 years ago (principally due to the 30 baht (50c) scheme introduced by the first Thaksin Govt - and the expansion of the NGO healthcare sector)......of course can be (should be!) topped up with cash............the basic free care not up to even UK NHS (socialised medicine!) standards as no bottomless pot of money, but that same for everybody - whether "paid for" by NHS, Insurance Company or self......remember that the Doctors don't tell you what you are not getting (unless you ask!), their job is give you the best care - but only with what is available (and the definition of availability includes the money to pay for).

FWIW me Missus had a couple of stints working within the Thai healthcare sector, in her early days was on the Body Snatchers crew (not really ambulances - more about simply picking up bodies or folk who were too mashed up to go to hospital by taxi etc ). A bit of an overlap with the family business interests - so never short of work .....later on she worked for an NGO that provided home care to the poor, basically as an auxilliary (untrained Nurse) - the role was both to do the dirty work that was beneath the Doctor and also to help ensure the Doctor's safety......... (she did like helping people - but also enjoyed battering 'em . etc)......just remembered one time she was in hospital, in circumstances pretty much as described - she ended up helping other patients as an unpaid auxiliary nurse, including making sure they ate well - not everyone has family near the hospital to visit every day / bring supplies / do the basic care),.....the idea with the NGO job was that she had something nice to put on any future Visa application - rather than simply "career hoodlum" ........her last experiance of the Thai Healthcare was as a patient (out and then in) at Bumrungrad (sp?) international private hospital - that didn't end well .....despite the blank cheque.

.........I guess what I am saying is that no easy answers when it comes to healthcare, but money is needed......whether that is paid for in advance by self and / or others (via pooled resources aka socialised healthcare), via Insurance or from own bank account......and none of those is a bottomless well.

Personally (although not a big one on insurance) - I would go for something that would patch you up and then evac back to home country (and then do whatever it is you do there).

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by atoll

having met the crew on that trip,
it might have more to do with their lack of house training!......

eddy,obliviously peeing against the crowded macdonalds window was a good one though

Yup.... took 'Bonding with Crew' to a whole new level...
but hell... they came with the boat...

[osirissail]

Originally Posted by Ex-Calif

. . . But I would never, never, ever, ever, sue a Skipper for injuring myself on a boat. That is the ultimate rudeness. . .

As with some other posters, I also totally agree with your statement. But then you are living outside the "asylum" a.k.a. USA.

Just this morning I was listening to the local Florida radio station's Tuesday morning program with Sally, the psychic seer. She takes telephone calls and tells folks the good news in their "future." She is billed as a "Psychic entertainer" but after announcing her presence the radio station goes into a half minute of legal disclaimers about how they are not responsible for her psychic revelations, and/or "might be" predictions. Seems folks here sue if the "might be/might happen" predictions don't come true.

So the need to have insurance is most probably significantly different for those living here in the "asylum" versus those folks living elsewhere in the world.

[Ex-Calif]

Originally Posted by osirissail

As with some other posters, I also totally agree with your statement. But then you are living outside the "asylum" a.k.a. USA.

Just this morning I was listening to the local Florida radio station's Tuesday morning program with Sally, the psychic seer. She takes telephone calls and tells folks the good news in their "future." She is billed as a "Psychic entertainer" but after announcing her presence the radio station goes into a half minute of legal disclaimers about how they are not responsible for her psychic revelations, and/or "might be" predictions. Seems folks here sue if the "might be/might happen" predictions don't come true.

So the need to have insurance is most probably significantly different for those living here in the "asylum" versus those folks living elsewhere in the world.

I agree with the asylum part. Many folks treat insurance like the lottery.

As a frequent traveler I get snapshots of places. The US is LA, SFO, Seattle and Cincinnati. I judge people's mood and get a general imprssion of how things are going by subtle clues like, how many old cars on the road, prevalence of SUVs, things like that.

This trip people are really tense so far and seem pretty disgruntled about health care and politics but otoh, there were lots of new cars in sfo and people seem to be doing ok. I think SFO with the high tech stuff has done pretty well through the crisis.

I really would not look forward to residing anywhere in the usa right now...

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by captainbri

My wife was just at one of those hospitals for food poisoning, here are the accommodation. there was a large room with 30 patients in it, it should be for 20 patients, plus the family members that made about 60 people in the hospital room. family is there because there is only 2 nurses, the floor might be good to sleep on but not for me, my wife was out in the hall way with about 20 other patients in beds and another 7 individuals sleeping next to the patients on the floor. that is socialized medicine, when i had my eye surgery it was a private hospital, And there are few hospitals with the accommodation and service that I had.

For me full coverage would depend on risk of what I am willing to lose and value of what I have. I would at least have liability insurance.

I took advantage of our " socialised medicine" I was in a nice ward with 3 other beds 24 nurse on call 24 hour doctor. Great care and attention.

I merely bring this up to counter the ridiculous argument that somehow national health systems evolve to the lowest common denominator , nothing could be further from the truth . The experience in Europe and Scandinavia does not bear this out.

Now back to boats

Dave

[hellosailor]

Don, as you yourself say, "if". I have no desire to read up on Florida laws as well as maritime laws, research the exact details of which will govern that case, much less find out why the fire started, which might also affect matters. Anything involving five yachts, a marina, and liability will probably drag on for five or six years in the courts regardless. This being the US, everyone will try to sue everyone else, and in what several of the leading state newspapers call "FloriDUH" I wouldn't hope for more common sense than in any other US jurisdiction. The fact that it was a Spanish colony rather than an English one also tends to make things "different" down there, as the common laws come from a totally different background. Heck, I'm just amazed that they usually drive on the right side of the street. Usually.
As the newly appointed RC Archibishop of Miami said last year, he was quite happy to be appointed to someplace so close the to the US mainland. (Literally, that's what he said. He got a good laugh.)

[avb3]

As a Canadian who partakes of our "socialized medicine" system, I find it interesting that as a percentage of GDP we spend 6-7% less then jurisdictions like the U.S, with better outcomes (we live longer).

My travel insurance to the US stipulates that if stable, and still requiring acute care, they fly me back on a medvac. I am very comfortable with that stipulation, knowing the quality of care that I will receive.

[dana-tenacity]

Back to the original post (whilst still claiming to be a huge fan of socialised medicine). If you ask anyone who was cruising long distances in the 70's and 80's (or earlier), insurance was unheard of. This is a modern development.

[dana-tenacity]

Plus it would be interesting to break down the voting by experience and by type of sailing.
My guess the more experienced the less insurance (as a broad generalisation), and the longer the range of crusing same.

[Weyalan]

Originally Posted by captainbri

A friend of mine was sick in a country with socialized medicine (and that is what he supported for the usa) we walked in to the hospital and he decided he would rather be sick, i told him to stay and that it would be a great experience it would be. He declined lol

As a counterpoint, I have received excellent (completely free) treatment in more than 1 country with "socialized" medicine. lol

[Weyalan]

I'd also like to opine that Insurance companies, like police officers are, in general, an instituton we like to denigrate and "bad mouth"... until we need one, then we sing a different song.

As an aside: We pay just over 1% of the value of the boat, per annum, for comprehensive insurance... this includes racing risk for any racing up to 100 nautical miles, and includes the mast and rigging. We have competed in longer, offshore races, and the additional cover has been less than 0.5% of the value of the boat. For what it is worth, the Insurance Company has paid out significantly more than I have paid them (through no fault of ours, I hasten to add).

[Rakuflames]

Originally Posted by Mr B

On one of these sailing forums,
Some one mentioned that a few insurance company's were NOT paying up,

You pay your premium and your still not covered,
But out of pocket for your premiums,

Name and shame them,

If they dont or wont pay for an accident, They dont get the premiums in the first place,

Only deal with Reputable Insurance Companys,

Put up the names of Crap Insurance Companys who are just collecting premiums,

I was uninsured at first, (Only because I was in transit,)
And that was scary,
Trying to park a 34 foot Cat in a Marina full of Mega buck boats,
No experience on parking a boat this size,
Still learning what it does or does not do, Hahahahahahhahaha

How does it handle parking with the centre boards up and down,
How long does it take to stop. With and with out reverse gear,
How do I slide it in, so that it slides up to the dock with out whacking the dock.
Does it float sideways with the wind, and how much, Hahahahaha It does, A great deal,

This list is endless,

But, Your coming in for fuel. your almost lined up to turn into the fuel berth, ****, your motor stops, 10 knot sidewind, 3 knot current running towards the parked Mega Buck Cruisers, your heading straight for that 10 million dollar half boat, and you are going to hit two other boats as well.

If I drop the anchor, which I cant, as its on the bow, and I have to go up there, It will swing me around to hit those other 2 Mega buck yachts on the other side any way.

I can park it now, So dont worry about me, Its the other learners you have to worry about now, Hahahahahahaha

If any of the boats involved in an accident and they are all not insured, It means a loss of a few boats, and very broke or bankrupt boat owners,


Cheers,
Brian,

Two realistic worries in marinas: beginners, as you said ...

AND ...

experienced people in the habit of bringing their boats in too fast.

Steering can fail, and transmission-related things can fail. Engines can fail.