eBay sale went south

[S/V_Surya]

Here is an interesting dilemma. I recently sold my dinghy on eBay. due to other commitments I had to leave town shortly after the sale. I sent the buyer a notarized bill of sale and location of the dinghy for pickup. the dinghy was at a small private Marina in Fort Myers. The dingy with motor was left well-secured to the dock and I had a local look after it. Although not gated there is always somebody at the marina the dinghy was located behind an open-air restaurant. Anyway, whenever the buyer went to pick up the boat 2 weeks later it had been stolen. I'm pretty sure it was an inside job but can't prove it. Lot of ex felons in the area.
He is now trying to get his money back through PayPal. I contend that the boat was his and he waited too long to pick it up.
I talked to eBay and they said if he contests it that he will win because he never saw the dingy in person.
He did file a police report.
I say he waited too long to collect the boat he should have got it immediately while I was there. I also say since he paid in full and was given a notarized bill of sale it was his as of that date. I never guaranteed storage or to look after the boat.
I'll try to post the picture later in case somebody in the area of Fort Myers Beach spots it.
Thanks

[Seaadventurers]

From his perspective, he does not know if the dinghy ever existed since he has never seen it.

[belizesailor]

Originally Posted by Seaadventurers

From his perspective, he does not know if the dinghy ever existed since he has never seen it.

Have to agree. He paid for it, and OP didnt deliver the goods. My interpretation is that the responsiblity is on the OP to deliver purchased goods or return cash. Its not the buyers problem that it was stolen.

[Lake-Effect]

(heh, I think I know that marina & restaurant)

Regrettably, I would agree that the loss is the responsibility of the seller. Everything the OP posted could be true... yet how does the buyer or Ebay know this? I think the OP could have done a better job of securing the dinghy - eg have the marina store it in a lock-up. Of course hindsight is 20-20.

It's also a cautionary tale for both buyers and sellers: on a big ticket item, be very cautious about how the deal is closed, and who has responsibility and when.

[S/V_Surya]

There is no Marina store. And there was no way to store it any place in Fort Myers Beach already checked.
My question is what is the buyer's responsibility. If he knows it will be a couple weeks before he can get down there isn't it his job to make sure the boat is looked after.
How long is my responsibility 2 weeks 6 months 2 years.
I think my mistake was not putting in the listing the boat must be moved within 48 Hours of sale.

[travellerw]

As a seller, your responsibility is to ensure the boat is handed over to the actual buyer. You are also responsible ensure you verify the identity of the buyer on pickup.

This one is pretty clear cut. The buyer will get his money back.

[S/V_Surya]

Interesting enough the buyer tried to claim his money back on PayPal buyer guarantee. PayPal ruled in my favor.

[pcmm]

Originally Posted by S/V_Surya

There is no Marina store. And there was no way to store it any place in Fort Myers Beach already checked.
My question is what is the buyer's responsibility. If he knows it will be a couple weeks before he can get down there isn't it his job to make sure the boat is looked after.
How long is my responsibility 2 weeks 6 months 2 years.
I think my mistake was not putting in the listing the boat must be moved within 48 Hours of sale.

Really, unless you stated that the item had to be picked up within a certain time frame, The Buyer has not taken delivery of the item and therefore the sale has not been completed. As the Seller (you) cannot complete the sale, the Transaction really should be voided and the buyers funds returned. If you sold your home but had not yet closed on it, and there was a fire, who would be on the hook? The seller would.

[rourkeh]

possible the buyer is scamming you
He may have removed the dingy himself and now has the boat, bill of sale and he will get his money back. I would check to see if the dingy was registered with the state, and if the title ( if there is one ) was transferred.

[SV Bacchus]

You say he filed a police report. In that report did he list himself as the owner? Is the dinghy now in the state database as stolen?

Not sure any of that proves anything one way or another; I was just thinking he wouldn't want to have it in his possession if it is in the computer as stolen.

[travellerw]

Originally Posted by rourkeh

possible the buyer is scamming you
He may have removed the dingy himself and now has the boat, bill of sale and he will get his money back. I would check to see if the dingy was registered with the state, and if the title ( if there is one ) was transferred.

Who is to say the seller isn't scamming the buyer?

Ya, I left the dinghy tied up to this dock! How do we even know the seller had a dinghy. How do we know the seller ever tied the dinghy up to the spot suggested.

Seller says Paypal ruled in his favor. I'm surprised by that. If I was the buyer, I would certainly get a lawyer.

[calin1967]

ebay is very buyer-oriented. If in doubt (like your case) they will favor the buyer. Good luck anyway!

[roland stockham]

I would think the legal position would depend on whether the buyer and seller made an agreement about handover. If they buyer agreed with the arrangement to leave the dingy tied to the dock for them to pick up then they have accepted responsibility for it even though they have not seen it. If this was a condition imposed by the seller after the deal then the seller has responsibility. Generally there is a 48hr time window on Ebay for deals to be completed but the seller has the responsibility for the goods during delivery. so without some agreement about leaving the dingy at the dock it would probably be seen as 'in delivery' and therefore the sellers responsibility until it was picked up. It is a bit af an unusual arrangement.

[Hardhead]

Unless there is a specific provision regarding physical receipt of the boat in the contract, the transfer of ownership should be complete upon payment in full, and transfer of a satisfied bill of sale to the buyer.

It is an unusual situation, and looking at it from a buyer's perspective, it seems unfair, but under strict contract law, I believe the analysis above is correct.

[Cheechako]

Ebay is very buyer oriented any more and you will have to refund. In general, a sale is not complete until possession is taken anyway.

So if you ship something, you are responsible until it arrives and is delivered, even though they paid much earlier. That's the way it's been for a long time in Epurchase.
If you ship something and it's not properly protected it's yours until it's accepted.

If you and he used Paypal, they insist on right of return and will side with the buyer most every time. I've had buyers get cold feet on expensive items before the item even arrived.
In the old days it was whether or not the purchase was FOB destination or FOB shipper.
BTW, Paypaland Ebay are now at about 60 or 90 days for allowing the person to return it!

Too bad, you got ripped off. May have not been anything related to the buyer at all.