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Old 21-02-2017, 01:17   #16
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Re: Dutch owners, Dutch flag, live outside EU --> VAT?

Sorry S/V Jedi ik blijf maar terugkomen op teboekstelling:
site van kadaster zegt : "Woont u in het buitenland? Dan moet u kunnen aantonen dat uw schip een ligplaats heeft in Nederland en u moet een postadres hebben in Nederland (geen postbusadres)."

Jullie lagen al buiten NL begrijp ik toen je de teboekstelling deed - hoe heb je die NL ligplaats opgelost? We hebben wel een postadres.
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Old 21-02-2017, 01:43   #17
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Re: Dutch owners, Dutch flag, live outside EU --> VAT?

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Originally Posted by Lula View Post
Thanks everyone, very helpful! Dutch flag may in the end not be an option as we'd need to fly in a surveyor from the 'Kadaster' - will take long.

Anyways, there is always another way, now also looking at registering in Seychelles or Gibraltar. If anyone has tips / experiences with those would appreciate. Main headache is to organise a tonnage survey in SA from a distance.

We live in Dar es Salaam Mike, boat moored at Dar yacht club (now a 34ft Van de Stadt, soon a 39ft Leopard); very active group here. We're outside the cyclone belt, no more pirates around, beautiful sailing with the Zanzibar and Mafia archipelagos around the corner - Karibuni Tanzania!
But then again, you have the Quirimbas...

Eveline
You might want to consider a duty Freeport registry like Malaysia's Langkawi....
very easy to register by mail and no need for survey
there are a few links here on CF about different registration options

I changed mine from St Vincent & Grenadines to Langkawi and it was very easy

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...d.php?t=118170
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Old 21-02-2017, 01:48   #18
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Re: Dutch owners, Dutch flag, live outside EU --> VAT?

Have Dutch doors but wasn't required to pay VAT; nevertheless did have to pay 8.5% California use tax.

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Old 21-02-2017, 02:30   #19
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Re: Dutch owners, Dutch flag, live outside EU --> VAT?

I just want to warn you ... the dutch tax office (belastingdienst) might have given you the all-clear on the VAT issue, but you should also be aware of other silly situations which are unlikely, but none-the-less quite possible.

Their email will not stop an over zealous tax official in (Portugal/Spain/fill-in--the-blank) from impounding your boat on the basis that it is not EU VAT paid, and you are EU citizens ... at which time you have no boat and are arguing with a foreign bureaucracy over tax they think is due ... best case you get your boat back in a few weeks, worst case you still have to pay VAT as VAT is administered within the EU at a national level (and tax exemptions in NL do not necessarily apply elsewhere).

If I were you I would strongly consider making NL your first EU port of call, and getting something along the lines of an official "certificate of VAT paid or exemption".

It's not likely to occur, but you'd feel silly if you took the chance and were wrong.
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Old 21-02-2017, 06:09   #20
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Re: Dutch owners, Dutch flag, live outside EU --> VAT?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lula View Post
Sorry S/V Jedi ik blijf maar terugkomen op teboekstelling:
site van kadaster zegt : "Woont u in het buitenland? Dan moet u kunnen aantonen dat uw schip een ligplaats heeft in Nederland en u moet een postadres hebben in Nederland (geen postbusadres)."

Jullie lagen al buiten NL begrijp ik toen je de teboekstelling deed - hoe heb je die NL ligplaats opgelost? We hebben wel een postadres.

Lula, als je in een ander land geimmigreerd bent dan wordt je geacht in dat land de boot te registreren. Wij zijn wel uit NL geemigreerd maar nergens geimmigreerd omdat we op een erg lange "wereldreis" zijn. We hebben dus overal een toeristen visum, geen permanent verblijfsvisum.

Ongeacht je situatie raad ik aan om hen te bellen. Veel van die tekst is bedoelt om belastingontduikers tegen te houden, niet ex-pat achtige zeilers.
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Old 21-02-2017, 06:55   #21
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Re: Dutch owners, Dutch flag, live outside EU --> VAT?

this whole discussion prompted me to review our registration again as well
no tax implications for me (Dutch citizen and residents and VAT paid) but the ICP vs. Kadaster registration keeps popping up

As we're currently in Portugal I just contacted the Kadaster for a cost estimate to register , outside normal registration costs (450 euro) they quoted me an additional 1000 euro travel fee

I may just have to bite the bullet for ease of mind
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Old 12-04-2017, 13:10   #22
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Re: Dutch owners, Dutch flag, live outside EU --> VAT?

Hi all, just to give feedback on what we did in the end: we registered in Gibraltar, because we finally found someone who could do the necessary tonnage survey in Cape Town, SA (Mecal, admin@mecal.co.uk). Also because flying in the kadaster guy from the Netherlands was very expensive and the projected duration was too long.
We hired law firm Ellul&co (Ellul & Co | Home | Gibraltar Lawyers | Notaries) in Gibraltar to do the registration, can recommend them, Neil Lopez has been great (Neil@ellul.gi)
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Old 12-04-2017, 13:14   #23
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Re: Dutch owners, Dutch flag, live outside EU --> VAT?

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Originally Posted by s/v Jedi View Post
Lula, als je in een ander land geimmigreerd bent dan wordt je geacht in dat land de boot te registreren. Wij zijn wel uit NL geemigreerd maar nergens geimmigreerd omdat we op een erg lange "wereldreis" zijn. We hebben dus overal een toeristen visum, geen permanent verblijfsvisum.

Ongeacht je situatie raad ik aan om hen te bellen. Veel van die tekst is bedoelt om belastingontduikers tegen te houden, niet ex-pat achtige zeilers.
Hi Jedi, we zijn Tanzaniaans resident maar die vlag was geen optie, is blacklisted. Maar goed, hebben dus uiteindelijk een oplossing gevonden
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Old 12-04-2017, 13:26   #24
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Re: Dutch owners, Dutch flag, live outside EU --> VAT?

Folks, I don't have a problem with Dutch but the forum language is English, many thanks.

Peter
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Old 23-04-2017, 08:50   #25
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Re: Dutch owners, Dutch flag, live outside EU --> VAT?

Being Durch, not being a resident in the EU, cannot flag a Dutch flag.
You do not have to pay VAT in the EU,. as long you leave the Eu within 18 months after entry. a leave of one day is sufffient, e.g. 1 day Channel islands, or Gibraltar, or Morocco a.s.o and the 18 months period restarts.
You can buy a vessel where you like, in the EU or outside.

I experienced it myself. This summer a must leave again and willl go to Malta,
Montenegro or Albany.

I hoipe this is clear. You can also contact the earlier mentioned ship registers in the Netherlands to have it confirmed.

The tonnage survey can be done by the RYA in Gibraltar.

good luck
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Old 22-02-2018, 11:57   #26
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Re: Dutch owners, Dutch flag, live outside EU --> VAT?

Hi Sea Angel,

Did you have experience resetting the VAT clock with a visit to the channel islands by any chance?

Thanks!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sea Angel1 View Post
Being Durch, not being a resident in the EU, cannot flag a Dutch flag.
You do not have to pay VAT in the EU,. as long you leave the Eu within 18 months after entry. a leave of one day is sufffient, e.g. 1 day Channel islands, or Gibraltar, or Morocco a.s.o and the 18 months period restarts.
You can buy a vessel where you like, in the EU or outside.

I experienced it myself. This summer a must leave again and willl go to Malta,
Montenegro or Albany.

I hoipe this is clear. You can also contact the earlier mentioned ship registers in the Netherlands to have it confirmed.

The tonnage survey can be done by the RYA in Gibraltar.

good luck
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Old 22-02-2018, 12:25   #27
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Re: Dutch owners, Dutch flag, live outside EU --> VAT?

Hi Lula,

I read a few of your last year's posts about flagging your yacht in the NL, and was wondering if you or anyone else have any current info on the subject?

I have a 1-year old Beneteau 41.1 purchased in 2017, registered and flagged in the Netherlands under the ex-vat Temporary Importation Rules as I am both a non-eu citizen and non-eu resident. I'm south-american and plan to keep the vessel within EU-waters for the next 3-4 years before sailing away from Europe.

Currently I have roughly 9 months to go before the first 18 months ex-vat clock expires and I've been struggling to determine if I need to change my vessel's flag to a non-eu country (Delaware for ex) before the expiration of 18 months to keep it ex-vat, or can I just keep my Ducth registration.

I'd love to keep the Ducth flag on my stern upon return from my first vat-clock reset on the Jersey Island later this summer, however I'm concerned about the legality of "re-importing" the vessel to the EU with the same NL flag I initially registered the boat with.

I've read through Articles 137 to 144 of the EU Customs Code as well as Articles 553 to 562 of the implementing provisions of the Customs Code, but it says nothing about flagging/registration vs VAT.

Any thoughts and suggestions would be highly appreciated!

Safe travels!

Upspeed.
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