Dual EU/US citizenship: impact on VAT and visa issues?

[ohthetrees]

Hi, I'm new here. I posted something similar on reddit, but didn't get much response. Cruisers Forum seems like a really great, active community, so I'm hoping to see a little more discussion.

I'm an American, but I'm working my way through the paperwork to get Irish Citizenship. My family is planning on buying a boat soon, and we would likely enjoy cruising Europe for a while.

Does anyone have any insight into how securing dual citizenship could affect my plans? Pro or con?

For example, I know Americans can bring a boat into Europe for 18 months without paying VAT on a vessel, but an EU resident must pay VAT as soon as they bring a boat in. What would be my obligation?

For Visas, an American can stay for up to 6 months, but beyond that it is difficult. Obviously an Irish citizen can stay as long as he likes.

Would I have the best of both worlds? Or maybe the worst of both worlds? Any advice is appreciated!

-Cedar

[atoll]

see this thread,dave is a non resident eu citizen (which is what you would be with an eu passport )making use of his non res status to keep his boat in europe

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...es-205124.html

[wolfgal]

yes, the rules are a bit complicated. you are right to seek out as much info as possible ahead of time.

beyond the Vat question, i recommend that you also find out if your boat needs to pass CE-inspection. this can be a royal pain...




good luck!

[ReneJK]

This is how I understand it (as EU passport holder)

VAT payment is due upon arrival in the the EU on a non-VAT boat *if* you have a EU passport *and* you are a resident (ie you arrive on your new-to-you yacht that you just bought in Turkey you will be hit with a VAT bill) but you can choose to pay VAT in any country , so choose wisely and enter the EU there (ie malta)

VAT is not due when you have a EU passport but are resident of a country outside the EU (ie irish passport holder with verifiable address in the USA)

And as a EU passport holder you can stay as long as you want inside the EU because you are basically ‘home’

So it seems ‘best of both worlds’ if you ask me , as long as you can prove residency outside the EU

One other thing , you are allowed to bring back your own possessions (furniture , car , yacht etc) into the EU after having lived abroad for a certain amount of time (and having owned those possessions as well for a certain amount of time) without having to pay VAT , if/when you move ‘back’ to the EU (ie become resident again) , so might be worth looking into as well

Disclaimer : this is how I understand it , do your own research and contact customs office in ireland and ask them ?

[ohthetrees]

Thanks for chiming in folks. ReneJK, you are saying what I'd hoped to hear! (But I won't hold it to you if you are wrong )

[ohthetrees]

Originally Posted by atoll

see this thread,dave is a non resident eu citizen (which is what you would be with an eu passport )making use of his non res status to keep his boat in europe

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...es-205124.html

Thanks, great link.

[Scaramanga F25]

Should you acquire Irish citizenship you lose your US citizenship, no?

[Montanan]

Originally Posted by Scaramanga F25

Should you acquire Irish citizenship you lose your US citizenship, no?

FYI.

Reference: https://travel.state.gov/content/tra...tionality.html

Dual Nationality
Section 101(a)(22) of the Immigration and Nationality Act (INA) states that “the term ‘national of the United States’ means (A) a citizen of the United States, or (B) a person who, though not a citizen of the United States, owes permanent allegiance to the United States.” Therefore, U.S. citizens are also U.S. nationals. Non-citizen nationality status refers only individuals who were born either in American Samoa or on Swains Island to parents who are not citizens of the United States. The concept of dual nationality means that a person is a national of two countries at the same time. Each country has its own nationality laws based on its own policy. Persons may have dual nationality by automatic operation of different laws rather than by choice. For example, a child born in a foreign country to U.S. national parents may be both a U.S. national and a national of the country of birth. Or, an individual having one nationality at birth may naturalize at a later date in another country and become a dual national.

U.S. law does not mention dual nationality or require a person to choose one nationality or another. A U.S. citizen may naturalize in a foreign state without any risk to his or her U.S. citizenship. However, persons who acquire a foreign nationality after age 18 by applying for it may relinquish their U.S. nationality if they wish to do so. In order to relinquish U.S. nationality by virtue of naturalization as a citizen of a foreign state, the law requires that the person must apply for the foreign nationality voluntarily and with the intention to relinquish U.S. nationality. Intent may be shown by the person’s statements and conduct.

Dual nationals owe allegiance to both the United States and the foreign country. They are required to obey the laws of both countries, and either country has the right to enforce its laws. It is important to note the problems attendant to dual nationality. Claims of other countries upon U.S. dual-nationals often place them in situations where their obligations to one country are in conflict with the laws of the other. In addition, their dual nationality may hamper efforts of the U.S. Government to provide consular protection to them when they are abroad, especially when they are in the country of their second nationality.

U.S. nationals, including dual nationals, must use a U.S. passport to enter and leave the United States. Dual nationals may also be required by the foreign country to use its passport to enter and leave that country. Use of the foreign passport to travel to or from a country other than the United States is not inconsistent with U.S. law.

[wolfgal]

Originally Posted by Scaramanga F25

Should you acquire Irish citizenship you lose your US citizenship, no?

the US allows people to hold another nationality, legislation dates 1993, i think, under Clinton.

the catch is that, while most countries make their "residents" pay taxes, the US expects its "citizens" pay taxes...

US dual nationals are required to file in the US even if they do not legally reside there

[ohthetrees]

Yeah, dual citizenship isn't a problem, at least for many countries. I did check, and Ireland is no problem, neither the USA, nor Ireland prohibit it.

If anyone else has an Ireland born grandparent, check out this program. It isn't too hard to apply for, you need all the birth, death, and marriage certificates of everyone between your grandparent and yourself. It was a little tough, but not too painful to track all those documents, down, and I was able to get them all remotely without traveling.

[Montanan]

Originally Posted by ohthetrees

Yeah, dual citizenship isn't a problem, at least for many countries. I did check, and Ireland is no problem, neither the USA, nor Ireland prohibit it.

If anyone else has an Ireland born grandparent, check out this program. It isn't too hard to apply for, you need all the birth, death, and marriage certificates of everyone between your grandparent and yourself. It was a little tough, but not too painful to track all those documents, down, and I was able to get them all remotely without traveling.

There is the St. Patty's Day exception when everyone is Irish for the day.

But is there per chance an Irish citizenship qualification derived from drinking Irish beer or whisky? If so how much of either is required? I.e., the Publican rule.

[FabioC]

Yes, US has no issue with dual citizenship. Other countries (e.g., China) may have issues, but none in Europe that I am aware of.
Many other countries expect to a great extent for their *residents* to pay taxes, so as long as you declare that you are a US resident, you are fine, for the most part. For VAT, you typically can get reimbursed for large items purchased, as long as you follow the reimbursement procedure very carefully.
Unfortunately, everything comes apart the moment you have foreign assets or foreign income that is taxed in the foreign country (e.g., you charter your boat in a foreign country that withholds taxes at the source on your chartering income). Then, since the US somehow thinks that is fair to also tax that income in the US, you pay US taxes on it as well. You do get a credit for "taxes paid to foreign countries", but because of the mysteries in the US tax calculations, for most people, it ends up pennies on the dollars that you paid to the foreign country, so at the end, cumulatively, you pay some ridiculous tax rate on that income.

[Siberian Sea]

I have duel French and American citizenships but as a none EU citizen your correct that they can only stay six months but...... that’s six months per year and it works like this. They can only stay 90 days then MUST leave the EU for 90 days to get another 90 days. They cannot stay in one six month block. So it’s 90 days each six months. If your vessel has not paid the VAT tax and your clearing in with a EU passport then you shall be liable for the tax. I keep my vessel documentation under the USA because I only need to clear out to a none EU port for example leave Martinique Island (France) sail to Saint Lucia next door. Stay one day there and return back to Martinique and I get another 18 months tax free. It matters not your citizenship in regards to the tax.