Cruisers Forum Insurance ?

[Mike OReilly]

I am very interested in the project Lloyd, and agree it could be beneficial to many. Currently my boating insurance is very reasonable (~$300 USD) for comprehensive. But this is a Canadian policy for Canadian/US border waters. If we ever head south I'll be looking for liability-only.

[chrisr]

i have had a lot of experience in this area, with shipping P&I (protection and indemnity) clubs ie self insuring co-ops for shipping companys. it's how 99% of world shipping insures.

the keys to successes for such are ;

1. care in selecting participants. this includes financial ability to meet calls / willingness to meet club standards etc
2. attaining critical mass. you need to get sufficient folk signed on so that you can meet the inevitable claims without making it financially nonviable

incidentally, i can see a problem getting marinas, boat yards and the like accepting a certificate of insurance issued by such co-operative. may take some time...

finally, a way to spread the risk / avoid large claims sinking the co-op is re-insurance. the co-op insures it's risk of eg any claim over $10 mill at lloyds or such. this would be relatively cheap.

my two cents

cheers,

[captlloyd]

Originally Posted by chrisr

i have had a lot of experience in this area, with shipping P&I (protection and indemnity) clubs ie self insuring co-ops for shipping companys. it's how 99% of world shipping insures.

the keys to successes for such are ;

1. care in selecting participants. this includes financial ability to meet calls / willingness to meet club standards etc
2. attaining critical mass. you need to get sufficient folk signed on so that you can meet the inevitable claims without making it financially nonviable

incidentally, i can see a problem getting marinas, boat yards and the like accepting a certificate of insurance issued by such co-operative. may take some time...

finally, a way to spread the risk / avoid large claims sinking the co-op is re-insurance. the co-op insures it's risk of eg any claim over $10 mill at lloyds or such. this would be relatively cheap.

my two cents

cheers,

Thank you for your input. Your explanation of risk sharing is vital for people needing to understand that yes, you need to have a coverage bank, just not a train load of it.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

I am very interested in the project Lloyd, and agree it could be beneficial to many. Currently my boating insurance is very reasonable (~$300 USD) for comprehensive. But this is a Canadian policy for Canadian/US border waters. If we ever head south I'll be looking for liability-only.

Just felt I should update this. I just got our 2020/21 renewal. It includes a 20% increase. Not happy...

[captlloyd]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

Just felt I should update this. I just got our 2020/21 renewal. It includes a 20% increase. Not happy...

Mike we got a very tepid response concerning an insurance co-op, you and maybe two or three other people. There were more negative replies than positive. After talking to a gentlemen from the UK who seemed to know quite a bit more about how the industry works I came to the conclusion that it probably is quite doable and most of the negativity was unfounded. Having said that, the member from the UK and I are both semi-retired and not willing to take on the venture and spend the time required to set the thing up. Honestly it seemed to me the ideal venture for a cruising couple wanting to work via the internet on their boat. With the boat insurance industry setting higher premiums, cutting coverages, adding more and more restrictions, I think the time is right for such a venture. Sorry for not being able to help you at this time, I am looking for insurance myself.

[robertmfranklin]

Mike, etc.

Although I pontificate extensively about my enthusiasm for becoming an insurance group "collective", I am concerned about legal restrictions.

In the U.S. the Credit Union movement began about 140 years ago. Immigrants were not "recognized" by the white banks and could not get financing to open small businesses. Affinity groups got together pooled money and lent to Joe, who was known to the group and considered to be energetic and reliable. Joe paid back and the next one was in line for a loan from the group. This is why you become a "member" of a Credit Union, not merely a depositor. The philosophy has diluted over time, but not completely.

Credit Unions are membercentric compared to Chase, BofA, etc. I know because I represented a Credit Union as their general counsel for 35 years. But even in my short tenure the attitude of management became increasingly similar to that of the big corporate style banks.

The insurance concept, the group concept, is a wonderful idea, but won't happen until people become desperate for coverage they can't get in the market or the rates just become prohibitive. The companies are smart enough to stay just on the pleasant side of that line.

Probably, the only realistic solution for our Cruising Forum members is to look at your own past experience and then decide whether to go naked or get bulked up with coverage.

For some the option is not available, meaning if you've financed your boat, your lender will control these decisions. If you took control of your insurance long ago, you wouldn't need a lender now.

I wonder what are the 5 largest expenditures the average person makes every year? Maybe ... home mortgage, second home mortgage, auto purchase/maintenance, education for children ... that's 4, what's next?

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by captlloyd

Mike we got a very tepid response concerning an insurance co-op, you and maybe two or three other people. There were more negative replies than positive. After talking to a gentlemen from the UK who seemed to know quite a bit more about how the industry works I came to the conclusion that it probably is quite doable and most of the negativity was unfounded. Having said that, the member from the UK and I are both semi-retired and not willing to take on the venture and spend the time required to set the thing up. Honestly it seemed to me the ideal venture for a cruising couple wanting to work via the internet on their boat. With the boat insurance industry setting higher premiums, cutting coverages, adding more and more restrictions, I think the time is right for such a venture. Sorry for not being able to help you at this time, I am looking for insurance myself.

Thanks Lloyd, I really appreciate your efforts. I do like the idea, and I think it would be feasible. But like the others, I'm not willing to put in the work required to build this start-up. As they say, 'been there, done that.'

Although my increase is significant, I'm still only paying a modest amount ($460 Cnd), and that's for comprehensive coverage. So I can complain too much. Still, it ticks me off.

So I guess I'm proving your right Robert. It's annoying, but not yet painful enough. I am pretty sure that if/when we head south we'll have to go naked, as you say. I'd happily pay a reasonable amount for liability-only coverage, but even that seems to be getting more expensive, and even harder to find.

[NorthernMac]

Originally Posted by letsgetsailing3

Because we know more about boat values and actuarial concerns than the insurance companies?


I don't think so.

I’d wager some do.

Putting that much faith in self proclaimed “experts”, especially ones in very for profit industries, can be hazardous


As far as the idea, if it included towing like boatUS, I’d be interested

[Chray]

hello

Someone told my husband that we cannot get boat insurance for our boat unless we hire a captain to be onboard with us at all times?? Could someone clarify this so my husband doesn't stay depressed!

Thank you

[Captn_Black]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

How much do you pay? For what coverage, over what area? What restrictions? And who's the broker and underwriter ... these pieces of information might actually help fellow boaters.

Third party only, 500k euro liability, east Atlantic and western Med. 150 euro a year. No survey, RYA Coastal Skipper qualification. 5 years no claims has given me reduction of 30 euro a year.

[captlloyd]

Originally Posted by Chray

hello

Someone told my husband that we cannot get boat insurance for our boat unless we hire a captain to be onboard with us at all times?? Could someone clarify this so my husband doesn't stay depressed!

Thank you

Unless you own some sort of Super Yacht ( million dollar boat ) I don’t think that is true at all.

[Boatguy30]

Plenty of insurers put it around 80' I have a customer that is almost 78 and had a 70' motoyacht. I'm honestly surprised he can get insurance. Ultra high risk as far as abandonment of vessel due to some type of non vessel related distress. Good luck!

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by Captn_Black

Third party only, 500k euro liability, east Atlantic and western Med. 150 euro a year. No survey, RYA Coastal Skipper qualification. 5 years no claims has given me reduction of 30 euro a year.

That sounds great. Can you share the broker and underwriter so folks in similar circumstances can follow your lead.

[Boatguy30]

That's the same price as US and they arent going to cover a boat outside those coastal areas for anything like that

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by Boatguy30

That's the same price as US and they arent going to cover a boat outside those coastal areas for anything like that

Which brokers and underwriters are you talking about BG? If would be most helpful to everyone to have them named. Most of the time we hear about challenges people have in finding liability-only policies.