Cruisers Forum Insurance ?

[captlloyd]

Originally Posted by Greg K

As I've stated on other similar threads, liability insurance is, for all practical purposes, mandatory in the Med in all marinas regardless of how long you stay. It also is accepted by all marinas and authorities and is readily available at a very reasonable price. For example, I pay about 65 euros annually for mine. The clincher is that the boat must be either eu flagged or the owner is officially an EU resident. Coverage includes the Med, Black sea and all European waters. Mandating coverage without making third party insurance readily available, as seems to be the case in the US, is superbly idiotic and short sighted on the part of the authorities IMHO.

I would think that a cooperative for experienced off shore cruisers offering liability coverage only would be a wildly popular and successful enterprise. Rather surprised that one does not yet exist in the US.

Yeah, that’s exactly what I have been preaching for some time now. Cruisers Forum seems like the ideal base for that for an entrepreneur.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by captlloyd

Yeah, that’s exactly what I have been preaching for some time now. Cruisers Forum seems like the ideal base for that for an entrepreneur.

Agreed. Some folks have taken a few steps to at least look into it. I haven't heard how, or even if, the project is proceeding. But I would be very interested if such a coop formed.

[goboatingnow]

I’ve a friend in the boat insurance business who typically Re-insures through Lloyds

He says that third party liability only cover is very hard to make money on. This is especially through where environmental damage /cleanup is included

He says the “ jam” is in hull and contents insurance

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

I’ve a friend in the boat insurance business who typically Re-insures through Lloyds

He says that third party liability only cover is very hard to make money on. This is especially through where environmental damage /cleanup is included

He says the “ jam” is in hull and contents insurance

Agreed. It's what I've always believed, and I've seen a couple of honest brokers come on here to say this indeed is the case. It's why it is a hard service to find -- at least in North America. It's really not worth the broker's time/effort to sell.

[Paul L]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

I’ve a friend in the boat insurance business who typically Re-insures through Lloyds

He says that third party liability only cover is very hard to make money on. This is especially through where environmental damage /cleanup is included

He says the “ jam” is in hull and contents insurance

If an insurance company offers full coverage with say usd$200k for hull and $800k for liability, they get a decent premium,
If they offer only $800k liability, they get a small premium but are still on the hook to payout the full $800k.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by Paul L

If an insurance company offers full coverage with say usd$200k for hull and $800k for liability, they get a decent premium,
If they offer only $800k liability, they get a small premium but are still on the hook to payout the full $800k.

Yes. But the risk involved is very low. This is why liability is quite cheap. Despite all the scary "what if!" scenarios, the fact is very few cruising level boats ever need to make a significant liability claim.

[Paul L]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

Yes. But the risk involved is very low. This is why liability is quite cheap. Despite all the scary "what if!" scenarios, the fact is very few cruising level boats ever need to make a significant liability claim.

Of course the risk is relatively low. But there comes a point where agreeing to take on $800,000 of risk for a $100 a year just isn't worth the pursuit when you could be picking up customers who are willing to pay $2,000 a year for full coverage. Each requiring the same amount of overhead.
If liability only yacht insurance was such a good deal for the underwriters then it would be plentiful to obtain. For most long distance cruisers it isn't.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

Yes. But the risk involved is very low. This is why liability is quite cheap. Despite all the scary "what if!" scenarios, the fact is very few cruising level boats ever need to make a significant liability claim.

Err, in a third party liability situation, you ( your insurance ) are exposed to another parties claims , not yours , these claims along with typical exorbitant legal fees and often sky high personal injury awards , mean that third party only liability is very expensive for an insurance company, yet the purchaser of that insurance seems little personal benefit , and as a result that puts downward pressure on pricing

The result , as my broker friend indicated , is a profit squeeze , and hence the general lack of such products on the market.

Around here , third party liability cover costs has rocketed, to the point that crèches , adventure centres are shutting solely due to liability insurance costs and the insurance industry is withdrawing products all over the place and retrenching

I don’t see liability only cover being mainstream any day soon

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by Paul L

Of course the risk is relatively low. But there comes a point where agreeing to take on $800,000 of risk for a $100 a year just isn't worth the pursuit when you could be picking up customers who are willing to pay $2,000 a year for full coverage. Each requiring the same amount of overhead.
If liability only yacht insurance was such a good deal for the underwriters then it would be plentiful to obtain. For most long distance cruisers it isn't.

Yes... that's exactly what I said a few posts down.

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

Err, in a third party liability situation, you ( your insurance ) are exposed to another parties claims , not yours , these claims along with typical exorbitant legal fees and often sky high personal injury awards , mean that third party only liability is very expensive for an insurance company, yet the purchaser of that insurance seems little personal benefit , and as a result that puts downward pressure on pricing

Yes, of course... but the claim arises from a negligent behaviour or action of the policy holder.

As for the rest, you're suggesting insurance companies can't assess risk, and can't price this risk appropriately. Given that this is their entire business model, I'd suggest you are in err .

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

The result , as my broker friend indicated , is a profit squeeze , and hence the general lack of such products on the market.

The problem in the retail market is that brokers are paid based on the value of the products sold. Since the liability product is so cheap, they make little profit. Yet from their end, managing a liability-only client vs a full-coverage client takes nearly the same effort. So naturally broker don't like to deal with this product.

But from the underwriter's perspective, they don't care. Unless they don't know what they're doing, they've priced the product appropriately based on the measurable risk. And this would include their necessary profit margin.

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

Around here , third party liability cover costs has rocketed, to the point that crèches , adventure centres are shutting solely due to liability insurance costs and the insurance industry is withdrawing products all over the place and retrenching

I don’t see liability only cover being mainstream any day soon[/QUOTE]

I don't know where you're referring to, so I assume you're correct. I've seen no evidence that liability policies are skyrocketing for cruising-type boats. Comprehensive (i.e. direct damage) coverage certainly is, but not liability.

Anyone with comprehensive coverage almost certainly has 3rd party liability coverage included. Go to your policy to see what it costs. On my last policy it cost me $84 for $2 million. This is a small part of the total cost of my policy.

[Kona]

Lots of interesting proposals and ideas here.


I happen to own a 1981 sailboat for which I had many problems finding a trustable insurer.


As I travel a lot, i needed an all around the world and all condition protection and found it 4 years ago.



I had a claim last year and had no problem getting paid.


I would like to share with you at least the quotation page URL If i am permitted to
here it is



https://wepals.net/ab


Thanks

[Paul L]

Originally Posted by Kona

Lots of interesting proposals and ideas here.


I happen to own a 1981 sailboat for which I had many problems finding a trustable insurer.


As I travel a lot, i needed an all around the world and all condition protection and found it 4 years ago.



I had a claim last year and had no problem getting paid.


I would like to share with you at least the quotation page URL If i am permitted to
here it is



https://wepals.net/ab


Thanks

Yea, tell us the details of your claim and payout.
This is the infamous Edwardwilliams and Northernreef crowd.
Beware.

[Kona]

Infamous? surprising!

i know by experience that many boat owners claims for untrue reasons sometime hoping to get a new Apple laptop or so.
I do not have all details of my claim here now as I am far from home.
Situation was that a guy with a trimaran hit us very hard and the hull got cracked about 8 feet long, so we had to work on that and yes it was a long tiume deal but we had the money back.
Why do you say that this company is unfamous?

[captlloyd]

Buying the mandatory Mexican and Cuba insurance, I am assuming it is more of a fee than a real insurance policy. I’m thinking it is mostly a liability policy that would be not valid in other countries. Anyone have any experience ?

[Kona]

I am personnally covered world wide

[captlloyd]

Originally Posted by Kona

I am personnally covered world wide

Mexico and Cuba don’t play by your rules. They have their requirements.