Cape Dory v. Tartan

[Chimeria]

Hi all - I’ve been using this forum a lot for research and finally became a member.

I am looking at two boats at the moment - a Tartan 34-2 and a Cape Dory 36. My purposes are for a comfortable live aboard for coastal cruising and some blue water cruising down the line. The issue is both boats need some work - not surprising - but in different areas.

The Tartan 34-2:
- 2022 survey noted the boat as fair. It has a tiller. The main issue is that there was heavy rust and soft spots around the starboard chainplate. Plus the turnbuckles are all heavily rusted (unsure if it is just surface rust or more). The engine also stopped on the survey, but the boat owner claims the problem has been address. Other than these two major issues - the boat has some DIY issues that need to be remedied (like wire caps for wire connections etc.)

The Cape Dory 36:
This is the real project boat. No bow or stern rails, stanchions removed but inside the boat currently. No soft spots in the deck, but on the interior, rain has intruded in several areas and caused issues. I do not know the full extent of the water damage, but flooring has been pulled up in some areas. Plus some cabinetry would need to be replaced as it is broken. The vberth hatch is cracked as well.

I like the keel of the CD and the additional length of the interior - but my thoughts are that it would be a massive undertaking to get it to a point where I would want to live in it.

Any advice or anything to look for on these boats? Thanks.

[neilpride]

I love the hull lines in the Tartan, issue number 1? balsa core? and the CD36 i think its solid layup below the waterline? if its me , Tartan , unless a moisture meter show double digits in the hull. The CD looks great to but its a project boat? no?

[Chimeria]

The CD is in sailable condition - the rigging is all good and the motor works. It’s just aesthetics that makes it a project boat - ie the interior work the cabin and the exterior issue of the bow and stern rails, stanchions, and hull needing paint.

[neilpride]

Make numbers, probably the Tartan need new rigging, but in terms of $$$ the CD have no bow , stern rails or stanchions + we dont know the extent of water damage in the interior.

[Orion Jim]

Both are project boats to one extent or another. The real question is do you have the skill set to take on a project or do you have desire to learn as you go to acquire the skill sets required. The only other alternative is to pay for others to perform those tasks beyond your ability. All project boats need storage yard space and a clear understanding that you will be undertaking a refit. Many yards do not allow owners and contractors to do work at their facilities.
I’m biased so I would always choose the CD36. A solidly built, full keel, proven bluewater cruiser designed by Carl Alberg. Her bronze hardware is all Spartan Marine. She has a solid glass hull with internal lead ballast. The deck and coachroof are stiffened with end grain balsa. The original engines were Perkins. Here are some helpful links.

CDSOA, Inc. -- CD36
http://www.farreachvoyages.com/
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCS-...kMW2kHKeOo05bw

[gonesail]

be careful when taking on project boats. it is so easy to compromise up front. buy a boat that you can sail. eventually they all need work and money thrown at them

[somanyboats]

Make a list of what needs to be done on each boat. Now be realistic about your skill set. Anything that you are not able to do yourself will need to be hired. Once you have a clear picture of the work that needs to be done you can make a better decision. Cosmetics can be done at your leisure. Concentrate on the engine, sail, rigging, rudder and prop

[Tortuga's Lie]

The Tartan will sail better but the soft side decks will be a project, not terribly difficult but it's definitely a project. I have had two Tartans, a 1977 T-37, and my current T-4100, so I am a little biased
Does the Tartan have the Universal Diesel or the Atomic 4? This could be a deciding factor if you're on the fence.
The Cape Dory has beautiful classic lines for sure and certainly will cross oceans for you plus It's (typically) a cutter rig, which will give you options. Look at the Robinhood 36, which is basically the same boat.
Which boat "speaks" to you???

[Networker]

Neither, they’re tiny coffins. Ancient designs and uncomfortable at anchor, where you will spend 90% of your time. Get something a bit more open, modern and comfortable. I did see a pacific seacraft 34 that wasn’t a coffin and doable, very well laid out and safe at sea.

[Tortuga's Lie]

Originally Posted by Networker

Neither, they’re tiny coffins. Ancient designs and uncomfortable at anchor, where you will spend 90% of your time. Get something a bit more open, modern and comfortable. I did see a pacific seacraft 34 that wasn’t a coffin and doable, very well laid out and safe at sea.

Not sure if you've looked at the specs or not, but the Tartan 34-2 was designed just 2 years ahead of the PS 34 and it has a wider beam by a foot, so less "coffin" like than you think. Even the Cape Dory 36 has a wider beam than the PS 34. Don't get me wrong, I like the Pacific Seacraft designs, they're still going to sail slower than the Tartan 34-2. I think you may be thinking of the Tartan 34C, which is a much older design.

[Networker]

Originally Posted by Tortuga's Lie

Not sure if you've looked at the specs or not, but the Tartan 34-2 was designed just 2 years ahead of the PS 34 and it has a wider beam by a foot, so less "coffin" like than you think. Even the Cape Dory 36 has a wider beam than the PS 34. Don't get me wrong, I like the Pacific Seacraft designs, they're still going to sail slower than the Tartan 34-2. I think you may be thinking of the Tartan 34C, which is a much older design.

It might have been a 34c, not sure. All I remember is that I couldn’t even fit in the bathroom. I’m not a pure bluewater boat fan, but seeing the PS 34, I’d go for that over the others. It was just comfortable yet seaworthy. It was all you needed for ocean crossing given its size. I’m a chicken and couldn’t cross in a 34, but this is possible.

[Tortuga's Lie]

Originally Posted by Networker

It might have been a 34c, not sure. All I remember is that I couldn’t even fit in the bathroom. I’m not a pure bluewater boat fan, but seeing the PS 34, I’d go for that over the others. It was just comfortable yet seaworthy. It was all you needed for ocean crossing given its size. I’m a chicken and couldn’t cross in a 34, but this is possible.

Yep, the T-34C does have a tight head for sure. Here's a link to the T-34-2:
https://sailboatdata.com/sailboat/tartan-34-2

[CarlF]

It's likely that your future insurance company will insist on replacing the standing rigging of either boat if it's over 10 years old. And if the chainplates of either are origional they should be replaced too.

Many don't realize that insurance companies go over survey's carefully and will require proof that all major deficiencies have been repaired professionally before they will bind the boat.

Water stained interior and lifted floorboards are no problem - other than it shows an owner who's not keeping up on maintenence - but rot is always likely in boats of this age. I'd get a surveyor back to probe more thourougly for rot. Repairing rot whether in the deck, hull, chainplates or framing is always more difficult than first expected. And when some is found it's likely that more is lurking.

I'd ask what happened to the bow and stern rail? Accident? Or just removed to bebed the fittings. It's very strange that the bow and stern pulpits are missing. Boats have stories - try to learn more. Obviously you'll need to replace the bow and stern pulpit and that's not something you'll do yourself. I would deduct the cost of that from any offer you make. And the stanchions should be remounted by the seller and the lifelines installed and pass survey. These are all safety items. Again, your insurance company will insist.

But if all things are equal - I'd go for the CD. I love Alberg designs and they are very comfortable at sea. That will be important to you if you are single handing. Everyone will tell you that your CD is beautiful - you won't hear that about the Tartan. The Tartan is a fine boat but one of the many "racer/cruiser" designs of the era that compromised offshore comfort for the style of the day and to do better on the race course.

[Brioche]

The question is how each boat became a "project" in the first place. Neglect that leads to the obvious problems suggests there may be other things lurking. Rusty turnbuckles may mean you will need new standing rigging. An engine that stops (of even one that runs) may have been neglected and need replacement. When you add up the cost of things like new rigging (you will doubtless need at least some), possibly new sails, possibly engine rebuild or replacement, you start getting close to the value of the boat, without even talking about the set equity you will put in fixing up more cosmetic items. On the other hand, if those basics are solid, you may be getting a great deal.

[Celestialsailor]

The Cape Dory 36 is much beefier by the numbers and comfort ratio.
Motion Comfort Cape Dory 36 35.5 Tartan 34-2 22.79
Displacement Cape Dory 36 16615 Tartan 34-2 11000