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26-02-2020, 05:23
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#1
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2020
Posts: 353
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Buying sailboat in Massachusetts
Hi,
I'm trying to finalize the purchase of a 1979 sailboat in Massachusetts.
The boat was CG registered, and had been cleanly removed from the registry. CG confirms this.
The owner has stated he's going to try to get the MA title.
I've had the boat surveyed, but still need to do a sea trial.
I intend to reregister with the CG. CG confirmed all I need is their bill of sales, they're registration form, and $94.
So my questions are;
Do we need to get the title? The CG seemed very confused when I said I was working on getting this. I don't intend to state register.
How have people handled (paperwork wise) a deposit on their boat pending sea trial?
Thanks!
PS: I'm superstitious about telling people about buying new vehicles before the deal is done. So, I'll reveal her if I end up buying her.
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26-02-2020, 05:43
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#2
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 726
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Re: Buying sailboat in Massachusetts
You have to check with your state if you live in U.S. Some state like Mass. require state registration, even though U.S. Coast documented !
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26-02-2020, 05:56
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#3
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Lakewood Ranch, FLORIDA
Boat: Alden 50, Sarasota, Florida
Posts: 3,470
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Re: Buying sailboat in Massachusetts
State registration and CG documentation are mutually exclusive things. You need both a title and state registration. You don’t NEED CG documentation unless you finance a boat or travel outside the U.S.
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26-02-2020, 06:26
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#4
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2018
Boat: 50ft Custom Fast Catamaran
Posts: 11,832
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Re: Buying sailboat in Massachusetts
That's because the title is State level. On the federal level, you just transfer the certificate of documentation.
"In the case of a previously owned vessel, the applicant must present bills of sale, or other evidence showing transfer of the vessel from the person who last documented, titled, or registered the vessel, or to whom the vessel was transferred on a Builder's Certification or Manufacturer's Certificate of Origin. If title was transferred by some means other than a bill of sale, contact the NVDC for assistance."
And...
When the sale is finalized you may complete a U.S. Coast Guard Bill of Sale (CG-1340) or complete the “Sale or Transfer of Vessel” section on the reverse of the Certificate of Documentation (CG-1270). Documentation forms, fee schedules, and instructions are available for downloading on this web site. If there is an outstanding mortgage, the mortgagee ( lender) should complete a Satisfaction of Mortgage. The vessel cannot be removed from documentation with an outstanding mortgage.
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26-02-2020, 06:37
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#5
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 2,007
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Re: Buying sailboat in Massachusetts
Quote:
Originally Posted by mike d.
You have to check with your state if you live in U.S. Some state like Mass. require state registration, even though U.S. Coast documented !
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True, but irrelevant to the question!
"Title" and the "registration" are totally different things. A USCG Document is the legal equivalent of a title to ownership. Even if you live in a state where registration is required for a documented vessel, the state will NOT issue a title for a USCG documented boat.
The legal issue here is the title or Document is the definitive document that defines ownership of the vessel. If the state title and USCG Document were to disagree in any detail, it would be a mess.
If your boat is eligible to receive a clean USCG document, there is no need to pursue a state title--unless you enjoy working with you local DMV!
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26-02-2020, 06:41
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#6
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 190
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Re: Buying sailboat in Massachusetts
MA does not require state registration if documented with the CG. Sales tax is required, but can be done online.
Bought two years ago, can’t remember what is required for titling, but it is state specific - I think it’s filed with the CG paperwork, but can’t remember - I don’t have one here on file and my paperless file cabinet is turned off to look up all the old paperwork work.
Best ‘deal’ in MA, where everything is taxed, including double taxation as a running policy - is boat excise. It’s based on length and year- tapering off very fast. I pay more for excuse in a motorcycle than a much more valuable boat.
Sea trial and how it’s handled is up to you and what you hope to accomplish. How the boat sails? How the engine runs? You can do a mechanical hold back until the engine can be run, or run it on the hard and re-winterize. Original power vs re-power, etc. An older boat can cause nit picking from both a buyer and seller.
In my case (2005 model year boat) - only pictures and agreed price. Showed up with surveyor, sea trialed (not sailed) and closed by 5pm to make the notary.
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26-02-2020, 06:54
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#7
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Beverly Ma.
Boat: Pacific Seacraft 31
Posts: 9
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Re: Buying sailboat in Massachusetts
When I purchased my boat last year it was a CG documented vessel. I purchased the boat in Annapolis through a broker from the original owners who bought it new in 2006. The broker recommended I use an agent to register the boat with the coast guard which I did.
When I got back to MA. I went to the registry in Boston and tried to register the boat and pay sales tax. The registry agent told me that it was not necessary to register the boat because it was a CG documented vessel and they would not take the sales tax either. They told me to go to the department of revenue around the corner and pay my tax's which I did.
The only thing to do after you register with the coast guard is have the name of the boat and the hailing port on the back transom.
After having the boat for a year and having sailed all summer I seriously wonder if it was even necessary to pay MA. sales tax but for piece of mind I did and I have the receipt with all the boat documents.
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26-02-2020, 07:09
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#8
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 190
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Re: Buying sailboat in Massachusetts
CG documentation is easy. All paperwork is on the CG website with instructions.
Don’t overthink or overdue the paperwork.
I think the OP is wondering the validity of no longer valid CG registration. See how I worded that? I would get a title from the seller. The CG just needs a bill of sale and don’t care about any state issues - registration, sales tax, etc.
As far as not paying sales tax...good luck! The excise is reconciled at the state level. Tried that with a dinghy, paying a fine is fun!
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26-02-2020, 08:12
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#9
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Boston area
Boat: Little Harbor 46 (1988)
Posts: 326
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Re: Buying sailboat in Massachusetts
Where will you keep the boat? I live in MA, bought a boat that was in CT, and keep it in RI (USCG homeport is Newport). I ended up, legally, with no taxes to pay anywhere, including not paying excise annually in MA.
As others said don't over think the USCG registration. It's easy and quick.
Excited for you!
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26-02-2020, 08:16
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#10
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,105
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Re: Buying sailboat in Massachusetts
Keep in mind that not all states in the US title vessels. However, Massachusetts is a title state. Vessels documented with the USCG are not titled by the state. The USCG documentation effectively IS your title, and you can only have one entity issuing a title.
The vessel can be registered in a state, regardless of USCG documentation. In fact, it may need to be registered in multiple states if you stay in any state longer than allowed.
USCG documentation is for international travel and CAN be required if there is a loan on the vessel. The lender needs to be a lien holder on the title. USCG documentation is only required for a loan only if the vessel is not state titled.
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26-02-2020, 09:07
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#11
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: New Jersey
Boat: Jeanneau Sun Odyssey 40.3
Posts: 164
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Re: Buying sailboat in Massachusetts
Quote:
Originally Posted by S/V Illusion
State registration and CG documentation are mutually exclusive things. You need both a title and state registration. You don’t NEED CG documentation unless you finance a boat or travel outside the U.S.
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Sorry, but that is simply wrong. CG documentation and state TITLING are mutually exclusive, but many states require state REGISTRATION of CG documented boats. My boat in NJ is CG documented, and therefore ineligible for a NJ title, but it is also required to be registered with the State of NJ and show a state registration sticker (but I do not have to put the registration number on the bow).
Tom
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26-02-2020, 10:08
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#12
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Beverly Ma.
Boat: Pacific Seacraft 31
Posts: 9
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Re: Buying sailboat in Massachusetts
Quote:
Originally Posted by jr_spyder
Where will you keep the boat? I live in MA, bought a boat that was in CT, and keep it in RI (USCG homeport is Newport). I ended up, legally, with no taxes to pay anywhere, including not paying excise annually in MA.
As others said don't over think the USCG registration. It's easy and quick.
Excited for you!
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I'm right down the street from my boat so keeping it in MA was the best option for me but I have friends that keep boats in Newport and don't pay any tax's.
That's a nice way to go if you can do it.
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26-02-2020, 12:50
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#13
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Guilford, CT
Boat: Bristol 35.5 1978
Posts: 747
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Re: Buying sailboat in Massachusetts
As asked earlier, where you keep the boat will determine required paperwork. I bought my current boat in Massachusetts and moved it to Connecticut. Home port of Guilford, CT (at the town marina) requires CT current registration. Bill of sale from previous owner and $$ got me CT registration. Boat had expired USCG documentation which I renewed, although not required. But continues the clear line of ownership. Congratulations on your impending purchase.
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27-02-2020, 02:30
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#14
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2020
Posts: 353
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Re: Buying sailboat in Massachusetts
So my current plan is to buy the boat in Massachusetts, and keep it there, at least for part of the season.
The answer seems to be it either needs to be currently CG documented or that the seller has the title. Since the boat is in between those two things right now, sale cannot occur.
As far as the sea trial my intention is to hold back a portion of the sale price until after that is complete. My question is how people have done that, with paperwork. Scribbles on a napkin?
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27-02-2020, 02:33
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#15
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2020
Posts: 353
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Re: Buying sailboat in Massachusetts
Quote:
Originally Posted by S/V Illusion
State registration and CG documentation are mutually exclusive things. You need both a title and state registration. You don’t NEED CG documentation unless you finance a boat or travel outside the U.S.
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Hi. This statement doesn't make sense. If they things are mutually exclusive, but you must have title and state registration, no one would/could have registered boats. Can you please clarify?
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