Buying my first boat is no longer a dream.

[nortonscove]

Centaur is the right way to go. You may decide against going bigger and that boat offers good stability with a reasonably manageable and weight. Seems a great compromise without the big bet.

[Halam]

I'm in the UK, my boat is based in Tollesbury, Essex. Come for a sail if you like.

Who will you sail with? I'm a Centaur fan, great value, sail well, handy size. If your sailing alone I think Centaur has large boat stability - it's in the water not on the water - but is still easy single handed. Make your mistakes on a handy boat and go bigger when you have the skill to make up for everything being heavier. I have a 29' Konsort now and having just crossed biscay on a lovely 50' boat I'll be glad to get back to my light and easy Konsort, which seemed so big when I got it.

PM me, of find me on facebook or linkedin.

[Clivevon]

I guess we all got into boats & sailing by very different routes - there is no right way or wrong way, only the way that works for you.

I am interested you say you have no experience. I assume you mean you have never been on a small boat at sea? I am interested why that is, given that you now want to buy a boat?

How old are you? (you don't have to answer that). You might be an older man who has just discovered this new interest, in which case you now want to get stuck in & get on with it. Or a younger man who perhaps has more time & can take it one step at a time.

Excuse me if you already know everything I am about to say, but if so its not obvious from your original post, so here goes...

The best way to learn sailing is to learn dinghy sailing. Very cheap (relatively), day sailing only (no shelter, no loo, no galley, no bed to lie on), no motor, so you will really have to learn how to use & trim your sails to get the best out of them. Join a dinghy sailing club - they are everywhere. Do that for a year or two then move up if you still want to.

Next thing is to crew on a sea-going sailing boat. Look at Crewseekers or join a club where there are skippers looking for crew ( I already suggested Channel Sailing Club which sails mainly around the Solent & south coast & across to France, although the pandemic means not so much this year). Again, very cheap way to get on the water. You can get loads of experience for not a lot of money, because you dont need to buy a boat. You will then be in a hugely better position to know what you want.

Instead of all that, lets assume you do actually want to buy a sailboat, maybe a 31 footer, even though you have no experience.

First question. Who is going to sail this boat? Single-handed, or you with crew?

If single-handed, start small. 26 ft max. Trailer sailers are not a bad idea.

If with crew, who is that? Friends, wife, children? How do they feel about sailing?

If crew all sorted, then fine. Go for a 31 footer. All will be more comfortable. Hire a skipper/instructor to show you the ropes on your own boat. Do the RYA courses - PLEASE DO THE COMPETENT CREW COURSE. I AM TOTALLY FED UP WITH SO CALLED DAY SKIPPERS WHO ARE NOT ABLE TO OPERATE AS COMPETENT CREW. Sorry, couldnt resist that. Sorry.

Take it a step at a time. Read the sailing magazines. Remember you can always drop the sails & turn the engine on to operate as a motor boat if you get stuck in the early days. We all have to learn. No shame in that.

Oh, have I mentioned yet that you are playing with fire? I am tol dthat ailing can be a pleasant hobby but for others it becomes an obsession which shapes the course of their entire lives.. Lots of folks like that on here.

Finally. Go for it. Have fun.

[Clivevon]

Oh, have I mentioned yet that you are playing with fire? I am told that sailing can be a pleasant hobby but for others it becomes an obsession which shapes the course of their entire lives.. Lots of folks like that on here.

[rmesfo]

Originally Posted by DoughMyDays

Hi Guys.

This is my first post here.

After a completely unrelated youtube suggested video cropping up in my list (Never had i looked at boats on there) I could not believe there was any such thing as any sailing boat for under 80k. It turns out there are and lots of them!

Spending many many weeks now fascinated with watching vids of all different boats and journey's. The boat I want and I can afford at this very time is along the lines of a Westerly Fulmar 32/Discuss 33 etc.

I also like the much cheaper smaller Westerly centaur and this would be a safe budget so I can really see down the line what the true costs of owning a boat would be. Knowing I would have lots of backup money if I needed to spend it.

I can afford the Fulmar right now etc. But would you actually buy the biggest you could afford? Or just go for a smaller cheaper boat to start with just to get some experience of things? then go for a bigger one later on?

Although I have no experience. I know this is what I want to try. I also do know boats are a massive task and that many things can go wrong and its not all plain sailing at all. It looks like a lot of hard long work!.

I want to learn much more before next year, maintenance, sailing etc. A lot of people in life (As I expected) have tried putting me off this. But its what I want and has been for a very long time!. I never thought anything like this would ever be in a price range until recently.

What are your thoughts and very sorry for the long post.

"There are no pockets in shrouds" has always guided me, especially as I get older. Good luck.

[Adelie]

Welcome.
Learn to sail first, get a Laser and go out for 2-3hr every other weekend for 6-12mo.
Then find something bigger and learn the cruising stuff: motors, anchoring, navigation, heads, provisioning, repairing the motor, repairing the head, repairing stuff in out of the way places where the nearest store is a 3hr walk away.

[DoughMyDays]

Originally Posted by Halam

I'm in the UK, my boat is based in Tollesbury, Essex. Come for a sail if you like.

Who will you sail with? I'm a Centaur fan, great value, sail well, handy size. If your sailing alone I think Centaur has large boat stability - it's in the water not on the water - but is still easy single handed. Make your mistakes on a handy boat and go bigger when you have the skill to make up for everything being heavier. I have a 29' Konsort now and having just crossed biscay on a lovely 50' boat I'll be glad to get back to my light and easy Konsort, which seemed so big when I got it.

PM me, of find me on facebook or linkedin.

That's very kind of you Halam thanks. I am quite a bit away though all the way up in Manchester. I would much prefer to be nearer south as you guys get the much better weather than we do up here!. A centaur was the first boat I looked at and loved the look, the reviews and most of all, the space inside for such a small boat. They seem like a very reasonable price too. I will drop you a PM.

Originally Posted by Clivevon

I guess we all got into boats & sailing by very different routes - there is no right way or wrong way, only the way that works for you.

I am interested you say you have no experience. I assume you mean you have never been on a small boat at sea? I am interested why that is, given that you now want to buy a boat?

How old are you? (you don't have to answer that). You might be an older man who has just discovered this new interest, in which case you now want to get stuck in & get on with it. Or a younger man who perhaps has more time & can take it one step at a time.

Excuse me if you already know everything I am about to say, but if so its not obvious from your original post, so here goes...

The best way to learn sailing is to learn dinghy sailing. Very cheap (relatively), day sailing only (no shelter, no loo, no galley, no bed to lie on), no motor, so you will really have to learn how to use & trim your sails to get the best out of them. Join a dinghy sailing club - they are everywhere. Do that for a year or two then move up if you still want to.

Next thing is to crew on a sea-going sailing boat. Look at Crewseekers or join a club where there are skippers looking for crew ( I already suggested Channel Sailing Club which sails mainly around the Solent & south coast & across to France, although the pandemic means not so much this year). Again, very cheap way to get on the water. You can get loads of experience for not a lot of money, because you dont need to buy a boat. You will then be in a hugely better position to know what you want.

Instead of all that, lets assume you do actually want to buy a sailboat, maybe a 31 footer, even though you have no experience.

First question. Who is going to sail this boat? Single-handed, or you with crew?

If single-handed, start small. 26 ft max. Trailer sailers are not a bad idea.

If with crew, who is that? Friends, wife, children? How do they feel about sailing?

If crew all sorted, then fine. Go for a 31 footer. All will be more comfortable. Hire a skipper/instructor to show you the ropes on your own boat. Do the RYA courses - PLEASE DO THE COMPETENT CREW COURSE. I AM TOTALLY FED UP WITH SO CALLED DAY SKIPPERS WHO ARE NOT ABLE TO OPERATE AS COMPETENT CREW. Sorry, couldnt resist that. Sorry.

Take it a step at a time. Read the sailing magazines. Remember you can always drop the sails & turn the engine on to operate as a motor boat if you get stuck in the early days. We all have to learn. No shame in that.

Oh, have I mentioned yet that you are playing with fire? I am tol dthat ailing can be a pleasant hobby but for others it becomes an obsession which shapes the course of their entire lives.. Lots of folks like that on here.

Finally. Go for it. Have fun.

All very valid questions. I should have maybe mentioned these before.

Well I would not really call it experience. I have stayed out on a Yaucht about 5 years ago on a weeks holiday in Lanzarote and did some boat steering. I have done speed boats and dhinjis a few times many years ago, so wouldnt really say I have sailing experience.

I am 41 now. So feel like time is ticking and with everything going on. The time to start living if any is now. It is only going to be me sailing the boat. The odd family member potentially.

So, the reason I want to buy a boat now. This sounds a bit cheesy. But this is what happened a few weeks ago. A myserious youtube suggested vid cropped up in my list (Never had i looked at boats on Youtube before this)

May of the vids ive seen of sailing couples paid no more than 10k for their sailing boats and have been from country to country in them. I knows not that easy or straight forward as that though. Most of those vids only show many of the good things and not the bad or challenging side of sailing.

I could not believe there was any such thing as any sailing boat for under 100k. It turns out there is and lots of them. I had no clue that even old sailing boats were ever in my life affordable and was always under the impression all my life that is was a rich persons game.

You are reading my mind here!. I looked at the 5 day crew course many times and I am very eager to get on the 5 day course for boating.

Originally Posted by nortonscove

Centaur is the right way to go. You may decide against going bigger and that boat offers good stability with a reasonably manageable and weight. Seems a great compromise without the big bet.

They look like the most even balanced boats ive ever come across so far regarding reputation. Handling, budget and space. These centaurs seem to hit every criteria for me.

I am overwhelemed at the support and replies here.

Originally Posted by Adelie

Welcome.
Learn to sail first, get a Laser and go out for 2-3hr every other weekend for 6-12mo.
Then find something bigger and learn the cruising stuff: motors, anchoring, navigation, heads, provisioning, repairing the motor, repairing the head, repairing stuff in out of the way places where the nearest store is a 3hr walk away.

This is also something I considered many years ago. Sounds like a plan.

[joelhemington]

Originally Posted by DoughMyDays

Hi Guys.

This is my first post here.

After a completely unrelated youtube suggested video cropping up in my list (Never had i looked at boats on there) I could not believe there was any such thing as any sailing boat for under 80k. It turns out there are and lots of them!

Spending many many weeks now fascinated with watching vids of all different boats and journey's. The boat I want and I can afford at this very time is along the lines of a Westerly Fulmar 32/Discuss 33 etc.

I also like the much cheaper smaller Westerly centaur and this would be a safe budget so I can really see down the line what the true costs of owning a boat would be. Knowing I would have lots of backup money if I needed to spend it.

I can afford the Fulmar right now etc. But would you actually buy the biggest you could afford? Or just go for a smaller cheaper boat to start with just to get some experience of things? then go for a bigger one later on?

Although I have no experience. I know this is what I want to try. I also do know boats are a massive task and that many things can go wrong and its not all plain sailing at all. It looks like a lot of hard long work!.

I want to learn much more before next year, maintenance, sailing etc. A lot of people in life (As I expected) have tried putting me off this. But its what I want and has been for a very long time!. I never thought anything like this would ever be in a price range until recently.

What are your thoughts and very sorry for the long post.

Given that you've been inspired by You Tube, I'll assume you're thinking about cruising boats that could be used as live aboards. Beware the older boats that have not been recently refitted - a proper refitting is often more expensive than the boat was itself. For a live aboard, I'd say 32' would be the minimum for two people but get one in good shape (don't buy a big money pit). Consider where you'll keep the boat and at what cost. The act of sailing itself is not brain surgery, it's everything else involved that requires the knowledge. I learned on a 12' windsurfer with one sail, a dagger board and mast - I was the standing rigging. Many here encourage new sailors to get a small starter boat to learn the ropes, the benefit being that you'll really get a feel for the wind which will be muted in larger boats. I don't discourage that but don't even think about trying to live on anything like that. The best approach is OPB (other people's boats). You should not be intimidated about seeking a ride because you're inexperienced. There's a lot things to do during sailing where just an extra set of hands comes in real handy and you can pick up skills quickly this way. There are many boats sitting around because the owner can't find anyone to go out with them. Find your local yacht club and do some networking and soon you'll be on the water much cheaper than running out and buying something you have little clue about.

[BlackHeron]

All boats are money pits. The bigger the boat the more money they suck as everything gets larger, more heavy-duty, expensive, and harder to handle. It doesn't get cheaper with scale, it gets much more expensive for just about everything.

Secondly, almost everything you see on YouTube is a lie. Most if it is BS made by people trying to market a brand to monetize their videos, and give you their version of reality. Many YouTube "experts" really have no clue what they are doing and are just repeating what everyone else says on YouTube or in forums like this (which in many ways are not any better.)

Good luck.

[DoughMyDays]

Originally Posted by joelhemington

Given that you've been inspired by You Tube, I'll assume you're thinking about cruising boats that could be used as live aboards. Beware the older boats that have not been recently refitted - a proper refitting is often more expensive than the boat was itself. For a live aboard, I'd say 32' would be the minimum for two people but get one in good shape (don't buy a big money pit). Consider where you'll keep the boat and at what cost. The act of sailing itself is not brain surgery, it's everything else involved that requires the knowledge. I learned on a 12' windsurfer with one sail, a dagger board and mast - I was the standing rigging. Many here encourage new sailors to get a small starter boat to learn the ropes, the benefit being that you'll really get a feel for the wind which will be muted in larger boats. I don't discourage that but don't even think about trying to live on anything like that. The best approach is OPB (other people's boats). You should not be intimidated about seeking a ride because you're inexperienced. There's a lot things to do during sailing where just an extra set of hands comes in real handy and you can pick up skills quickly this way. There are many boats sitting around because the owner can't find anyone to go out with them. Find your local yacht club and do some networking and soon you'll be on the water much cheaper than running out and buying something you have little clue about.

Smaller seems like the best start. As for wanting to live on one, nice idea. But that's a definete no, I have one family member here that I need to be back and fourth for. I would like to maybe spend a few days here and there at the most on one.

Yes I have been inspired by those YouTube vids . But more inspired that Boats are actually affordable more than anything.

There is a sailing club only a few miles from my home here. They are open this weekend. I am going to find out and learn exactly what they offer - https://www.doac.club/

Im with you on the money pit. I think as many others have said. There is no point in throwing big money on big boats when there maybe a lot of reasons this may never work out. Selling a boat that cost me only a £1000 or £3000 will be less catastrophic than one I paid 20k for.

There is also The Manchester ship canal near me. Which is more like a massive river with a sailing club also not far from my house.

[BlackHeron]

Check out the costs for a slip or mooring in your area and the haulout fees and storage rates if you can't keep a boat in the water all year round where you are. You may find that the yearly fees will be near to what the price of many of the cheaper boats you can find, if not more.

We used to live in Chicago and the bare minimum fee for having a boat on a mooring and storing it on the hard at a yard in the city over the winter was about $4k/year for a resident. If you wanted a slip instead of a mooring ball, inside storage, or a boat over 30' that number went up really damn fast. There are many used sailboats for sale in the area selling for well under $4k.

You could save a little bit by storing across the lake in St. Joseph or up at Waukegan. And maybe save a bit by getting a slip down in Gary IN or up in Waukegan, but it would still cost a couple grand a year. And this is doing all the maintenance yourself.

Materials cost a lot. Go into a WestMarine, or whatever local chandlery there is in your part of the world, and look at basic stuff like bottom paint, West Systems epoxy products, bulk rope, and all the other paraphernalia required to keep a boat up and running. Sure there are cheaper places to shop online like Defender or Jamestown Distributors, for example in the US, but it is still expensive and it adds up year after year.

Everything in the marine world costs by the foot. Moorings/slips, haulouts, cleanings, dry storage, painting, waxing, even overnight transient docking. The bigger the boat the more you pay. At many places once you go over certain size not only do you pay for more feet, but the price per foot actually goes up to a higher rate too.

The bigger the boat the more you pay, and this is on a curve that keeps getting steeper and steeper on the higher end -it is not linear.

Now it makes sense why there are so many boat-owners out there desperate to unload their money-pits cheap to someone else before they are totally bled out dry.

[DoughMyDays]

Originally Posted by BlackHeron

All boats are money pits. The bigger the boat the more money they suck as everything gets larger, more heavy-duty, expensive, and harder to handle. It doesn't get cheaper with scale, it gets much more expensive for just about everything.

Secondly, almost everything you see on YouTube is a lie. Most if it is BS made by people trying to market a brand to monetize their videos, and give you their version of reality. Many YouTube "experts" really have no clue what they are doing and are just repeating what everyone else says on YouTube or in forums like this (which in many ways are not any better.)

Good luck.

I figured out the BS quite quickly . Although im inspired and really enjoy the vids. It didnt take long for this Patreon thing and other branding sneaky advertising to come up on videos. No idea what Patreon really is. But it's some money making donation thing they all use from what I gather.

Most of those vids dont show you the difficult side and cost of sailing. Most of their videos all make out that they live off nothing and their boats cost about $500 to run maintain and store all year round and that anyone can do it with zero income.

All the vids ive watched were last made 3 or more years ago and never see comments or responses from a lot of them. Wonder why....

I will openly admit I know absolutely nothing about boats in reality or what even most of you guys talk about here or what the terms even mean. But i knew nothing about 3d printers when I got one. How I have my own I designed and invented from scratch.

I have looked into a good couple of moorings round me and even some on the cost and looked at the annual fees. Crane liftings. Anti fouling costs and paint epoxys etc. Its by far not a cheap life at all. Im not 100% im getting a much smaller boat than anticipated just for the money safety side and learning of things.

working out my expenses after all my bills etc. I have over £1300 every month spending money to play with to myself. Hopefully that should be enough to get me going. Along with the 20+k money already put away to buy something. Not a change im going to spend that much on one now. Not even close. no more than 3k or so.

The biggest challenge looking right now I can see are the storage/mooring costs. Smaller boat = Cheaper moorings from what I can see as everything in boats seems to be charged per foot/Per metre.

Im also freelance and work from anywhere on line part time. Which should mean more time for boating.

[Pete7]

Originally Posted by DoughMyDays

There is also The Manchester ship canal near me. Which is more like a massive river with a sailing club also not far from my house.

I grew up in Southport and now live in the Solent. Sailing in the NW on saltwater is challenging and the Manchester Ships Canal isn't the place to learn or mess about on, regulations are strict. Liverpool would also scare me. Preston has a big dock, but its tidal so out and stay out until the tide comes back in 12 hours later. Yacht lost on the wall at the river entrance recently, very sad.

However, within range are the Lake District and North Wales. For the Lakes have a look at Conniston Water rather than Windermere, much cheaper and less crowded. A couple of years spent weekend sailing in the lakes learning the ropes after some training may be a way forward.

A trailer sailor will help to cut the costs as it can be taken home for the winter and lifted out of the water for maintenance. You can also move it yourself. Realistically you need a Landrover Discovery or copy to tow a trailer sailor in the 23-25ft range in the UK including steep slipways which I did for 20 years. The Fulmar will go to the IOM in a Force 6, the trailer sailor won't, but you can cover a lot of miles to different locations at 50mph on a motorway.

This also means you can tow to the Cumbrian Coastal harbours like Whitehaven and Maryport or Wokington. For Wales the same applies to Anglesey or Abersoch and Phwllheli.

So this is in France but just to give you a flavour:
https://www.apolloduck.com/boat/etap-23/607794

Get a couple of summers in lake sailing and the likes of the Scottish Western Isles will make a very pleasant next step as they are sheltered. Have a look at Oban and Tobermory on Google Maps.

So yes to join a local yacht club. Also RYA training to Day Skipper level including the theory at night school or via the club. Finally best time to buy a yacht in the UK, October when the nights draw in, its wet and cold, no one buys then apart from the astute who want a bargain to prep for next Spring.

Pete

[DoughMyDays]

Originally Posted by Pete7

I grew up in Southport and now live in the Solent. Sailing in the NW on saltwater is challenging and the Manchester Ships Canal isn't the place to learn or mess about on, regulations are strict. Liverpool would also scare me. Preston has a big dock, but its tidal so out and stay out until the tide comes back in 12 hours later. Yacht lost on the wall at the river entrance recently, very sad.

However, within range are the Lake District and North Wales. For the Lakes have a look at Conniston Water rather than Windermere, much cheaper and less crowded. A couple of years spent weekend sailing in the lakes learning the ropes after some training may be a way forward.

A trailer sailor will help to cut the costs as it can be taken home for the winter and lifted out of the water for maintenance. You can also move it yourself. Realistically you need a Landrover Discovery or copy to tow a trailer sailor in the 23-25ft range in the UK including steep slipways which I did for 20 years. The Fulmar will go to the IOM in a Force 6, the trailer sailor won't, but you can cover a lot of miles to different locations at 50mph on a motorway.

This also means you can tow to the Cumbrian Coastal harbours like Whitehaven and Maryport or Wokington. For Wales the same applies to Anglesey or Abersoch and Phwllheli.

So this is in France but just to give you a flavour:
https://www.apolloduck.com/boat/etap-23/607794

Get a couple of summers in lake sailing and the likes of the Scottish Western Isles will make a very pleasant next step as they are sheltered. Have a look at Oban and Tobermory on Google Maps.

So yes to join a local yacht club. Also RYA training to Day Skipper level including the theory at night school or via the club. Finally best time to buy a yacht in the UK, October when the nights draw in, its wet and cold, no one buys then apart from the astute who want a bargain to prep for next Spring.

Pete

WOW. The mooring prices in some of these places on lakes are literally less than half of that on saltwater. Thanks for the recommended areas. Lake water looks like a perfect place to start.

[Pete7]

Absolutely and freshwater far less damaging or aging over time. You just have to dry out the boat, tanks and heads prior to winter, in case it freezes.

Sailing in the lakes can be as gentle or challenging as you like. With high hills around the wind can be fluky rather than a steady breeze at sea. This keeps you on your toes adjusting the sails etc.

Going north Loch Lomond, Loch Ness and south Bala in N Wales are also options for a trailer sailor weekend away. There might be a couple of hours work to rig and launch but that okay to sail in so many different areas.

Pete