Buying from owner after working with broker?

[Whisper Cappy]

Once owned a Yacht Brokerage. Bottom line it is all about the written word. A hand shake as you stated is probably not legally, but may be ethically binding. Nn that point if I had a customer who was looking to buy a multi hundred thousand dollar boat I would do more than just send a few listings.
That said, on this deal you should contact the broker, pay him a negotiated fee to help you buy this boat. I believe there will be needed paperwork to bring the boat into the U.S. from another country. A lot of this has to do with the EPA Tier III regulations. Need to know which engine is in the boat, when it was built and what were the EPA Tier regulations at that time. Get some help or at least research the topic of how to bring a boat into the U.S., that is assuming it is not a U.S. registered vessel.
Good Luck!

[crayiii]

Originally Posted by Whisper Cappy

... that point if I had a customer who was looking to buy a multi hundred thousand dollar boat I would do more than just send a few listings.
...
Good Luck!

In his defense, there are very very very few of the boats I'm interested in that are available.

A clean owner's version, never chartered Lagoon 420 or 421 is what seems to check most of the boxes. Even with a healthy cash budget, boats (leopard/Lagoon) that meet that criteria are few.

[Cheechako]

Why would you pay a broker for a boat you found yourself? Then again, why would you hire a buyer's broker? :>)
But I guess I missed the Import/export thing?
If you want the boat there are companies that do the import/export title thing for not much $. I have used one in Fl selling and buying a boat out of the US. In 2000 the escrow titles fees were $500

[TrentePieds]

There are businesses known as Customs Brokers. They specialize in handling import/export paper work for every kind of goods under the sun including pleasure vessels. Their fees are far less than the fees charged by Sellers/Buyers Agents (Yacht Brokers). They never mess up the paper. If they do, they are legally liable for damages suffered by their clients.

The registration/certification/licensing procedures for yachts are not difficult for a boat owner to deal with himself, PROVIDED the import documentation has been correctly handled by the Customs Broker.

In my day in Customs Brokerage (half a century ago) the question of exchanging title concurrent with making payment was also always handled by the CB because like Notaries and Solicitors CBs were legally empowered to hold the buyer's funds in escrow. With trusted clients, the CB would settle with the seller from his own funds for subsequent recovery from the client.

If your problem comes up again, give a CB a call and see what you can learn.

TrentePIeds

[skipmac]

Originally Posted by TrentePieds

There are businesses known as Customs Brokers. They specialize in handling import/export paper work for every kind of goods under the sun including pleasure vessels. Their fees are far less than the fees charged by Sellers/Buyers Agents (Yacht Brokers). They never mess up the paper. If they do, they are legally liable for damages suffered by their clients.

The registration/certification/licensing procedures for yachts are not difficult for a boat owner to deal with himself, PROVIDED the import documentation has been correctly handled by the Customs Broker.

In my day in Customs Brokerage (half a century ago) the question of exchanging title concurrent with making payment was also always handled by the CB because like Notaries and Solicitors CBs were legally empowered to hold the buyer's funds in escrow. With trusted clients, the CB would settle with the seller from his own funds for subsequent recovery from the client.

If your problem comes up again, give a CB a call and see what you can learn.

TrentePIeds

Just so. My custom's broker charges a flat fee of $100 for the clearing shipments I bring into the US. That of course doesn't include duties, any port fees or other charges related to the import.

Not sure if she would be aware of any issues regarding compliance with EPA standards or other requirements like that.

[crayiii]

Originally Posted by Cheechako

Why would you pay a broker for a boat you found yourself? Then again, why would you hire a buyer's broker? :>)
But I guess I missed the Import/export thing?
If you want the boat there are companies that do the import/export title thing for not much $. I have used one in Fl selling and buying a boat out of the US. In 2000 the escrow titles fees were $500

The main reason for wanting a broker is that we budgeted up to half a million dollars to buy a boat that we plan to live and travel on and that is a large amount for us. Although we have owned boats for 25 years, they've not been this large or complicated.

Having someone knowledgeable to help us with finding, negotiating, surveying, documenting, insuring, and everything else seems valuable.

[skipmac]

FYI a sailboat over 9.2 meters in length with an auxiliary motor falls into the duty classification (HTS code) 8903.91.35 with a duty rate of 1.5%. There is a special duty of 30% that would be charged for dumping or to penalize imports from a specific country but not currently active.

A few countries are duty free like Canada and Mexico under NAFTA, Australia just because we like Aussies and a few more that don't apply.

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

As someone else said, let your conscience be your guide. You appear to know it would be unethical to simply bypass the broker. But as I and others have said, a reasonable accommodation is likely possible.

I really don't see what is unethical about dumping the broker. He was supposed to bring boats to consider. If he didn't bring a satisfactory boat then he does not have to be reimbursed. The OP found his own boat with no help from the broker. Tell the broker the deal is off and go on your own.

In fact I have that exact experience. I asked the broker who sold me my previous boat to find me a particular type of vessel to purchase. He didn't do it. When I found one myself (through a newspaper adv) I bought it. The broker is owed nothing.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by wingssail

I really don't see what is unethical about dumping the broker. He was supposed to bring boats to consider. If he didn't bring a satisfactory boat then he does not have to be reimbursed. The OP found his own boat with no help from the broker. Tell the broker the deal is off and go on your own.

In fact I have that exact experience. I asked the broker who sold me my previous boat to find me a particular type of vessel to purchase. He didn't do it. When I found one myself (through a newspaper adv) I bought it. The broker is owed nothing.

The OP did not claim the broker did not do what was agreed. He complained he was not happy with some of the results, but that’s different than being in breach of the agreement.

If one side fails to live up to an agreement (whether written or verbal), then you can void the agreement. But that would require a clear statement from the aggrieved side. So sure, dump the broker, but do it explicitly. Don’t just surreptitious bypass him. That just makes you as bad as the broker.

I’m a little surprised at how casual some of you are towards a verbal agreement. Perhaps I’m old school, but I think a person's word is worth something. If I make a verbal agreement, I don’t then try and weasel out it by later claiming nothing was written. And in all common law jurisdictions I’m aware of, a verbal agreement can still be an enforceable contract. It’s just that it is much harder to prove.

[crayiii]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

The OP did not claim the broker did not do what was agreed. He complained he was not happy with some of the results, but that’s different than being in breach of the agreement.

It's the lack of communication that frustrates me but I'm generally an impatient person so I try to keep that in mind.

There have been two boats he's sent me (in the $475k range), that I've replied to him in email with "let's make an offer" and I don't hear back for days and then the response is that they just went under an offer.

I sent him one that is listed on his company's website and said, I'm interested in this, let's move on it and he replied that he would make a call. That was 4 days ago.

Today, the owner of the FSBO Lagoon sent me a message that they are willing to move from the asking price to help pay a broker commission. I sent a email to the broker 8 hours ago letting him know and haven't heard anything back. Again, that just may be how it works and I need to deal with it but it's frustrating.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by crayiii

It's the lack of communication that frustrates me but I'm generally an impatient person so I try to keep that in mind.

There have been two boats he's sent me (in the $475k range), that I've replied to him in email with "let's make an offer" and I don't hear back for days and then it's been that they just went under an offer.

I sent him one that is listed on his companies website and said, I'm interested in this, let's move on it and he replied that he would make a call. That was 4 days ago.

Today, the owner of the FSBO Lagoon sent me a message that they are willing to move from the asking price to help pay a broker commission. I sent a email to the broker 8 hours ago letting him know and haven't heard anything back. Again, that just may be how it works and I need to deal with it but it's frustrating.

Given this, I WOULD fire the broker. It sounds like he’s not doing what you contracted him to do. Fire him, and be done with it.

[skipmac]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

Given this, I WOULD fire the broker. It sounds like he’s not doing what you contracted him to do. Fire him, and be done with it.

Agree. Any broker worth his salt would be answering an email like that in minutes if not seconds. Maybe the broker is used to seven figure deals and considers this small change. Either way, time to light a fire under this one or get a new one.

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

The OP did not claim the broker did not do what was agreed. He complained he was not happy with some of the results, but that’s different than being in breach of the agreement.

If one side fails to live up to an agreement (whether written or verbal), then you can void the agreement. But that would require a clear statement from the aggrieved side. So sure, dump the broker, but do it explicitly. Don’t just surreptitious bypass him. That just makes you as bad as the broker.

I’m a little surprised at how casual some of you are towards a verbal agreement. Perhaps I’m old school, but I think a person's word is worth something. If I make a verbal agreement, I don’t then try and weasel out it by later claiming nothing was written. And in all common law jurisdictions I’m aware of, a verbal agreement can still be an enforceable contract. It’s just that it is much harder to prove.

Mike, I agree that the verbal contract is binding; a man is only as good as his word. And certainly one needs to notify the other party that the deal is off. And I should not have used the term "Dump" the broker. A better way is to tell him, verbal, email, whatever, that you think the agreement is not working out and you are finished with it. Polite, professional, final.

[GWilly]

This reminds me of a situation I had years ago when buying a house. I had signed the usual contract with an agent to help us find a home and to represent us in the purchase. So he goes on vacation for 2 weeks, and we keep looking on our own. We find a house we really liked but it was a for sale by owner, and the seller had no interest in involving an agent. Because it was a hot market and other parties were going to make offers, we went ahead with our own offer, which was accepted and paperwork signed. My agent finally returns and I tell him what was going on. I felt bad in cutting him out, as he spent time driving us around, etc. I offered him some cash ($500 maybe? I forget) but he declined, saying to just give his name out as a recommendation. Case closed, happily.

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by crayiii

I have been working with a buyer's broker (he has only been sending me links) but we haven't been making any progress on finding a boat yet. Today I talked with an owner of a boat I found on my own and I want to move forward on purchasing from them.

The owner isn't interested in using a broker since they don't wish to pay the fees.

The way I see it I have 3 choices.

1) pass on the boat
2) pay my broker myself to work the deal
3) work with the seller and make it happen ourselves

What is the proper etiquette here? The broker hasn't spent much time with me at all but I did shake his hand and ask him to find me a boat.

Do I need the help of a broker for a foreign flagged multi hundred thousand dollar boat that I want to bring to the US?

Lots of things can and do go wrong with boat deals. Each of the three times we purchased, I used a buyers broker in some capacity, and each time..... things would have gotten really screwed up if I hadn’t. You’ll need a solid contract to hold things together.