Buying a yacht with broker representation vs no representation

[BAOSIN]

I am planning on buying a used MacGregor 26. It's not a big boat and is not expensive. Would it be worth it to get an agent to represent me? If I don't use an agent and just represent myself, will I be able to extract a discount from the selling agent?

Thanks in advance.

[Pete7]

were are you going to use this M26. They don't have a great reputation and it would be worth Googling them so you are fully aware.

You can offer what ever you like and the agent and the owner are free to accept or turn down your offer. You and the agent can then decide to meet somewhere in the middle. Do your homework find a price you think its worth compared to the others on the market and offer slighty less. You can always up your offer. Don't be afraid to walk away for a while, its like playing poker, who will capitulate first.

The use of an agent to buy a boat on your behalf seems an Amercian thing, doesn't happen this side of the pond, although a surveyor is.

Pete

[GordMay]

Greetings and welcome aboard the CF, BAOSIN.

[carlylelk]

Probably not worth it. You are probably in a better negotiating position than you might think. If the boat is "older", and especially if you're not on a coast, there isn't much demand for small boats. It took me a year to sell a 28' sailboat (1991) that was in really good condition for about 2/3's of book value.

You can look up the value on-line (I think BoatUS offers that service) and then seriously discount it. Take some time to understand the value of the current sail inventory because this is a big ticket item. Also check the standing and running rigging and any thru-hulls. If the other guy accepts your offer, make it contingent on a haul-out so you can check for corrosion below the waterline, and for blisters. Depending on the value of the boat a professional surveyor may be warranted, but don't put too much stock in them...some are OK, some are terrible, none are perfect or even close.

[Suijin]

Not worth it. Selling broker gets his or her 10% if there is no buyer's broker, that's how it goes. Of course you're free to offer 5% less in your initial offer, that's up to you, but you won't be successful going back after your offer is accepted and requesting a 5% "rebate" because you don't have representation.

The value of a seller's broker is:
- Can view recently sold boats of the same make/model and what they sold for
- May be familiar with the relative condition of boats sold and on the market
- Formulating a bid amount based on the above
- Taking care of paperwork

By the way, I know a guy with a 140 HP on the back of his 26. Terrifying.

[YachtBroker]

Unless it's already listed with a broker and a very later model one another broker is not going to want to deal with a boat of this price range (sub $20K). Most sellers do not either as most brokers have a minimum commission of $3-5K even though we still get a lot of boats listed in this price range because the sellers don't want to deal with the hassles of selling them. But usually most boats this size change hands owner to owner. However I would also back up what has been said here, get a surveyor regardless of the price and or have the outboard checked out by a reputable dealer unless it was just serviced.

[Tom and Maje]

If the other side has a broker, I'd get my own. And we did. We tried working with a broker who represented the boat, but it did not go well.

Maje

[jrbogie]

Originally Posted by BAOSIN

I am planning on buying a used MacGregor 26. It's not a big boat and is not expensive. Would it be worth it to get an agent to represent me? If I don't use an agent and just represent myself, will I be able to extract a discount from the selling agent?

Thanks in advance.

if there is a selling agent then there's no reason not to get an agent to represent you. just like buying a home, the seller pays all broker fees and the selling agent will split the commission with your agent. as an aside, be wary of the macgregor 26.

[taxwizz]

There are two things that you want to control.
1. Knowledge of the actual condition of the boat. Consider a survey.
2. Be sure that legal title is passed. Consider a lawyer.

Then...
3. Have as much fun as you can.

[carlheintz]

Buyer's broker? I don't think so, not for this type of boat, and price range.

Seller's broker? They may be difficult to work with, since this is a small potatoes deal for them, and their fee will be pitifully small ( 10% of sales price)

Survey? Maybe not worth it on a 26' boat. You probably want to do it yourself, and if you don't know how, this is an excellent opportunity to learn what to look for. Seems like many surveyors focus on stuff that just doesn't count, like the number of life preservers, the expiration dates on the flares, or the condition of the cushions. It is difficult to know what's wrong with an old boat until you go over it inch by inch. Even then, it's easy to miss stuff. Unless you pay top dollar for a top surveyor, you can't really rely upon the survey. I have seen surveys of boats, then inspected the boat and been unpleasantly surprised by the serious stuff they missed. Reminds me of those home inspections we get when we buy a house.

Mac Gregor? Not the best reputation for quality, sailing characteristics nor marketability. Caveat Emptor on steroids.

There are a glut of those kinds of boats. I would be very cautious about buying an older boat without knowing a lot about boats and the subject boat in particular. I've been around boats all my life and I bought a Cal 28 and found out just how little I really knew....BOAT = break out another thousand.
Three years of off and on rehabilitation and $ 5,000 later, I have a great little boat, and I know a whole lot about what can hide and bite you later. Caveat Emptor.

Finally, if there are any issues, and I mean any issues with the boat, run don't walk away. There is always another boat....

[bcboomer]

Are you looking at the original MacGregor 26 sailboat or the hybrid, does nothing well, power-sailor? Unless you really need the power boat part skip the power-sailor. The original 25/26's were pretty good sailboats.

Don't be afraid to offer lots less than asking to start with.

[TrentePieds]

hmmm... There is a sort of fundamental rule in all trading, whether it be in boats, real estate or services or anything else: Know as much about the subject at hand as any "professional" you may choose (or be forced) to employ. You employ the professio0nal only to save yourself time and effort. And in some circumstances because the law sez you must :-)

In three hours you will be able google and commit to a spreadsheet the asking prices of McGregor 26s for sale anywhere in the world! Asking prices are of two kinds: 1) "Listing prices" of brokers having been engaged by the seller to obtain a sale. 2) "Asking prices" of boats offered for sale on HolyMotherNet by their owners without involvement of a "professional". Asking prices will be 10 to 30 percent lower than listing prices. Bid 60% of listing prices if you bid on a listed boat, but remember that once you "make an offer" you are legally bound by it. On "private sales" bid 80% and see what happens. There are some aspects to "handing over the money" in a "private sale" that you might like to talk to us about. WE can do that later :-)

Remember that a seller's broker is employed by the seller, and is responsible in law for extracting from you, the buyer, the maximum amount of cash he possibly can. His interests are NOT your interests. But he has a legal obligation to protect the buyer's money until "title passes". Doing that would be the principal reason for employing a "buyer's broker", i.e. doing so is a redundancy.

If you are uncertain about the "technicalities" of a boat you are contemplating buying, it is NOT a broker you need. As I said: A broker's legal duty is to the seller, i.e. to your adversary. A broker employed by you and responsible to you is a waste of money. YOU need to know what you are dealing with. It is a surveyor you need, because a surveyor engaged by you has a legal obligation to YOU - he is, legally, your "servant" - and he is responsible in law for having appropriate competence to guide you. But YOU have to have the competence to monitor and assess that competence.

But are a surveyor's services worthwhile on a MacGregor 26? I, myself wouldn't spend the money on a surveyor's fee, for it will amount, most likely, to 20 or 25 percent of the asking price of an older M26. Get five unfavourable surveys, and many, many boats offered for sale result in such, and you've blown away the purchase price of a M26 to no effect at all. So here is a starting point for you:

Marine Survey 101, Do your own marine survey

I know spring it on 'er way, but curtail your impatience. Take a week to study up on what to look for. Ask questions. Learn. And know that any money you spend on a M26 to "upgrade" her will most likely be "sunk cost". Be aware also that you should be able to buy a M26 for a purchase price of rather less than the cost of mooring her for a year unless you keep 'er on a trailer and take 'er home after each sail. And doing that is a Royal PITA! So royal, in fact, that you will soon get tired of using 'er :-)

And as for being "able to extract a discount from the selling agent": Of course you can, but please understand that there is no such thing as a "discount" because used boats do not sell for a "Manufacturer's Suggested Retail Price". Used boats sell for "what the market will bear", which is to say for amounts offered by able buyers to willing sellers. Don't be too "able"! You will find that very often sellers are willing to sell for far less than they pretend to be! So bid low. And walk away if your bid is not taken.

The world is full of old boats for sale. It's a "buyer's market". And the vast majority of boats for sale is IMO far superior to the M26. And that is only partly a matter of taste. Quality of construction enters into it as does competence of design and efficacy for intended purpose.

You've come to the right place to harvest all kinds of opinion for you to either embrace of reject. So don't be too impatient. Learn. Ask technical questions. But try to make those questions specific and pointed. You might get the discussion going by asking us - not just me - in what way "the vast majority of boats for sale is IMO far superior to the M26." If the shellbacks here assembled shoot me down - not to worry. YOU (and other newbs) will learn a lot from the discussion :-)

Best of luck

TrentePieds

[taxwizz]

Here is a good article from Practical Sailor on surveying a used boat.

https://www.practical-sailor.com/iss...17&omhide=true

Good luck.

[hamburking]

I'm still trying to figure out why the SELLER has a broker?

As you said, its a small boat, and not a ton of money (depending on the year). Why would the seller prefer to give away 10% of the sale price instead of just posting some local ads?

I think you will find the brokers will only distract you from the boat, the condition of the boat, and all things boat. Their job is to extract a commission. They will pressure both sides to make the sale. That is their job. It pays their rent.

I suggest you view some similar boats for sale by owner. Proud owner.

And finally, I have to wonder about your choice of MacGregor 26...its the boat that does everything (power, sail, trailer) and nothing well. Its a boat built specifically for people who know nothing about boating, which obviously makes it the best selling sailboat of all time.

[hamburking]

Originally Posted by bcboomer

Are you looking at the original MacGregor 26 sailboat or the hybrid, does nothing well, power-sailor? Unless you really need the power boat part skip the power-sailor. The original 25/26's were pretty good sailboats.

If it were one of the older, original MacGregors, it would be so cheap that no broker would be interested in representing it. 10% of zero is zero.