Buying a Canadian boat remotely

[HobbesNYC]

Hi all,

I found a 1979 boat in Canada that I'm seriously considering. It'll be my first boat purchase!

It's not terribly expensive (under 10k), so I'm willing to gamble a little on a remote purchase. Pictures looked great compared to other similar boats. It's being sold by the owner.

My question is how does the whole buying process work for an overseas, sight unseen boat? Should I contact a buyer's broker? Or just get a survey and check for liens? Is it worth flying down and looking at it in person? How does customs work? Do I just sail it across to the US and deal with it when I arrive?

Second question; It's in the Georgian Bay. I need to eventually get it to Jersey City. It's trailerable, but I'd prefer to sail it. 35 foot mast height and a shallow draft. Can I take it through the ICW? Would be my first time doing that.

[TrentePieds]

It would help us to help you if we knew the make and model of the boat, and if we knew what sort of sailing experience you have.

Getting her from Georgian Barty to Jersey City should not be a problem for even an only moderately experienced sailing man.

For a 10K boat it seems to me to be unnecessary to pay for a CONDITION survey, though you will not get insurance without have an INSURANCE survey, nor are you likely to find moorage in a marina without having proof of insurance. This would obtain even on the voyage "home" from GB.

You don't need a broker. The boat will be LICENCED or it will be REGISTERED with Transport Canada. If it is neither, that might be a problem! Registration and licencing are two different things. "Registration" is adequate proof of title, "licencing" is not. A licenced boat will have a licence number displayed on it, and TC can inform you of the licensee's name. A registered boat will be registered under her name, and TC can advise you of her ownership if you supply the vessel's name. If the name the boat is licenced under is the same as the name of the seller, you'll be reasonably sure that the seller in fact does have title to the boat. Employ a Canadian Notary Public to hold the purchase money in escrow pending delivery to him of a formal Bill of sale. His fee will be just a few hundred dollars. Always best to have a disinterested professional intermediary in cases where title has to pass and there is more money at stake than you'd spend on a good night out.

What you have to do on the US side regarding import duty, tax and registration I don't know. US Customs can tell you.

Take the trouble to learn to do a condition survey yourself. Our member "Boat poker" (a professional marine surveyor) has most generously made his paper Marine Survey 101 available to us all. Here it is:

Marine Survey 101, pre-survey inspection

So go inspect the boat. :-) Fly into Toronto (pronounced "Twanna" locally) and rent a car. From Twanna to the township of Georgian Bay is a piddling 60 or 70 miles. The Water galled Georgian Bay is probably 200 miles long, so you'll need a car:-)

BTW, you won't be flying "down". This is Canada. You will in all respects be flying "up" :-)!

If you have sailing experience, no sweat. If you don't, get back to us.

Bonne chance :-)!

TrentePieds

[HobbesNYC]

Thanks! It's a contessa 26, I've sailed j24s around Manhattan for two years (so I'm pretty used to traffic) and have my asa 103, so I have lots to learn!

I'm wondering if it's best to hire someone to truck it down to Albany and take it the rest of the way, seems much more manageable! But it sounds like I'm going to need to get insurance first, so I guess that means an insurance survey. Perhaps it's best to do that while it's still on the dry? Maybe make that a condition of sale?

[TrentePieds]

The Contessa is, as I'm sure you know, a fiberglass version of the venerable Folkebåd originating as collaborative design project by Skandinavisk Sejlerforbund way back in 1940. Scandinavian Sejlerforbund is an organization of serious yotties from the three Scowegian countries, Norway, Sweden and my native Denmark.

The Contessa is in my view an almost ideal first boat for a man who would be a real sailor. It is small, admittedly, but sails wonderfully and is easy to keep. There is absolutely NOTHING, "systems-wise", that a man with ordinary "fix-it" abilities brought aboard from ashore cannot maintain on his own. No professionals required, no bizarre calls on the bank account :-)!

That goes even for the little Petter diesel the Contessas came with originally, but your boat is likely to have had the Petter removed and to have an "egg beater" for power, probably a 9.9 Johnson or Evinrude. That's just fine on so light a boat.

You have ASA 103 you say, and experience on J24s. That's more than adequate for a sensible and ordinarily prudent man to take a Contessa from GB to Jersey City on her own bottoms. But remember that 8 hours at the helm is a long day for a single-handing sailor. In eight hours you can expect to go a maximum of 40 miles on you rhumb line. If you have to beat to weather count on 20 or less! 8 hours with the egg beater providing the motivation gets to be old really, really fast :-)!

So work out a leisurely passage plan and make a lovely vacation of it. Or truck the boat home. Whatever you do, DO NOT insist that your wife be crew on the retrieval voyage. That way lies the wreck of a marriage, but we can talk about that, and the why of it, later.

Don't worry that you don't know enuff to do the job. ASA103 is PLENTY book larnin'. From there on it'll all come by way of sea-time. Just make sure that you know how to stay out of skinny water and away from all other traffic. Remember also, when you are under canvas that if she heels consistently beyond 15º, you are pressing her too hard and it's time to reef! The Contessa will balance beautifully under reduced sail. Life will be easier with hank on sails than if a previous owner has buggered the boat about by fitting roller furling. There again is something we can get back to later if you like.

Cheers!

TrentePieds

[boatpoker]

From Georgia Bay you can go west or south ..

West to Lake Michigan to Lake Erie, then the Welland Canal, Lake Ontario to Oswego to the Erie Canal and Hudson river.

South through the Trent Severn Canal to Lake Ontario to Oswego and the Erie Canal

You will have to drop the mast (secured on deck) for the Trent-Severn and the Erie Canal.

Check out the Erie Canal Here. ..
Cruising New York State Canal System, Erie, Cayuga, Seneca

[Scorpius]

Originally Posted by TrentePieds

It would help us to help you if we knew the make and model of the boat, and if we knew what sort of sailing experience you have.

Getting her from Georgian Barty to Jersey City should not be a problem for even an only moderately experienced sailing man.

For a 10K boat it seems to me to be unnecessary to pay for a CONDITION survey, though you will not get insurance without have an INSURANCE survey, nor are you likely to find moorage in a marina without having proof of insurance. This would obtain even on the voyage "home" from GB.

You don't need a broker. The boat will be LICENCED or it will be REGISTERED with Transport Canada. If it is neither, that might be a problem! Registration and licencing are two different things. "Registration" is adequate proof of title, "licencing" is not. A licenced boat will have a licence number displayed on it, and TC can inform you of the licensee's name. A registered boat will be registered under her name, and TC can advise you of her ownership if you supply the vessel's name. If the name the boat is licenced under is the same as the name of the seller, you'll be reasonably sure that the seller in fact does have title to the boat. Employ a Canadian Notary Public to hold the purchase money in escrow pending delivery to him of a formal Bill of sale. His fee will be just a few hundred dollars. Always best to have a disinterested professional intermediary in cases where title has to pass and there is more money at stake than you'd spend on a good night out.

What you have to do on the US side regarding import duty, tax and registration I don't know. US Customs can tell you.

Take the trouble to learn to do a condition survey yourself. Our member "Boat poker" (a professional marine surveyor) has most generously made his paper Marine Survey 101 available to us all. Here it is:

Marine Survey 101, pre-survey inspection

So go inspect the boat. :-) Fly into Toronto (pronounced "Twanna" locally) and rent a car. From Twanna to the township of Georgian Bay is a piddling 60 or 70 miles. The Water galled Georgian Bay is probably 200 miles long, so you'll need a car:-)

BTW, you won't be flying "down". This is Canada. You will in all respects be flying "up" :-)!

If you have sailing experience, no sweat. If you don't, get back to us.

Bonne chance :-)!

TrentePieds

You will need the boat name and PORT OF REGISTRY (should be painted on the stern) if you want to get the registered owner's name from Transport Canada. (The same name can be used in multiple Ports of Registry: e.g. I could name and register my boat as the Queen Mary as long as I registered her somewhere other than Southhampton, England).


However, if it is a smaller boat (under say 40 feet) it is most likely licensed, not registered - so you will simply need the license number (should be painted somewhere on each side of the boat - but sometimes is not).

[Kelkara]

Also note that if the motor is less than 10hp (ie many outboard powered sailboats) it needs niether registration nor licence ... you can just own/use it without paperwork.

[TrentePieds]

Ah.., Yes. Thanx, Scorpius, for catching me up on the PofR.

TP

[TrentePieds]

Quote: "Also note that if the motor is less than 10hp..."

Which, f course, is why 10-horse motors are designated "9.9 HP" :-)

TP

[boatpoker]

Originally Posted by Scorpius

You will need the boat name and PORT OF REGISTRY (should be painted on the stern) if you want to get the registered owner's name from Transport Canada. (The same name can be used in multiple Ports of Registry: e.g. I could name and register my boat as the Queen Mary as long as I registered her somewhere other than Southhampton, England).


However, if it is a smaller boat (under say 40 feet) it is most likely licensed, not registered - so you will simply need the license number (should be painted somewhere on each side of the boat - but sometimes is not).

TC has discretion on vessel names. I have seen names rejected due to their historical significance i.e. "CANADA", "QUEEN MARY". The name need not be on the stern it just needs to be visible from the same angle as the Port of Register.

I did Derek Hatfields registration and tonnage measurement and he was refused the name "Canada" altho' the previous "Canada" was long gone and de-registered hence "SPIRIT OF CANADA"

[TrentePieds]

Quite right that we should "dot our tees and cross our eyes", and there may be many a newbie on CF who will benefit from this bit o' thread drift, so thanks boatpoker :-)

As I gathered it, the OP just needs to make reasonably sure that the Contessa he is interested in is unencumbered.

But as you say, TC has absolute discretion. I've heard of a crab fisherman who wanted to call his new boat "Blue Ointment" — and was refused :-)!

TP