Buying a boat with deferred maintenance?

[Tanqueray]

Originally Posted by eric12

Just make sure you have an additional 20k minimum set aside. Me personally, I would be more concerned with the engine. A boat from the 80's is due for new rigging the day you purchase the boat based on a 15yr life span.

Eric12

I don’t know if that is a given…I sail on the Great Lakes, so no salt water (and that certainly makes a difference), but I bought a 1988 boat for $22k, have owned it for 8 years now, and haven’t had any major issues.

Yes, I have replaced the sails, running rigging, have standing rigging replacement on my list when I retire…. But the boat is solid. I have no idea if the rigging has ever been replaced, but I will replace it before too long just to be safe.


Greg

[eric12]

Btw I was part of the Burnham
Harbor sailing club back in the day that is where I learned to sail, on wooden Penguins.
Back to biz, I have had several boats, always bought smart. The last sailboat we had was 52'. I had a stroke on that boat so, we turned to the dark side and have a 72' power boat. We use the fuel gauges as a fan, 😂.
We are liveaboards in Mazatlan Mexico.
My take on all this is a bunch of old people spewing dribble sounding intelligent from the armchair in their living room.
A boat is a total losing proposition!!!!! Depreciating hunk of wood or plastic. What we are all spending our money and time on is quality of life. I look out ofour boat having coffee in the morning and notice my backyard goes all the way to Japan. Yeah, I pay for it. Is a conscious decision. Preventative maintenance vs replacing things cuz of a micro rust spot. Is having more money than sense and fear of the unknown btw I'm 72yo and still in the game

[MicHughV]

Forget about rod rigging. I had it on my second boat.

#1, It's really slippery to grab onto when wet. I'm talking really slippery, almost like someone smeared grease on it.

#2, It's impossible to replace, repair, extend, etc. by a DIY-er, as the ends have formed ends requiring heavy machinery to make.

I grew to hate it and would never have it another boat ever again.

[Tanqueray]

Originally Posted by eric12

Btw I was part of the Burnham
Harbor sailing club back in the day that is where I learned to sail, on wooden Penguins.
Back to biz, I have had several boats, always bought smart. The last sailboat we had was 52'. I had a stroke on that boat so, we turned to the dark side and have a 72' power boat. We use the fuel gauges as a fan, 😂.
We are liveaboards in Mazatlan Mexico.
My take on all this is a bunch of old people spewing dribble sounding intelligent from the armchair in their living room.
A boat is a total losing proposition!!!!! Depreciating hunk of wood or plastic. What we are all spending our money and time on is quality of life. I look out ofour boat having coffee in the morning and notice my backyard goes all the way to Japan. Yeah, I pay for it. Is a conscious decision. Preventative maintenance vs replacing things cuz of a micro rust spot. Is having more money than sense and fear of the unknown btw I'm 72yo and still in the game

Good on you for still being in the game at 72! And living the dream…sorry about the gas guzzler though.

Not arguing that boats are money pits…but as you said, you are doing it for the lifestyle. Same here, but not quite as extreme as you.

My post was just to say that not every 30+ YO boat is ready for scrap heap.

Yes it is depreciating quickly…but at 40 YO, it should already be depreciated. If the boat is in decent shape, and can be purchased cheaply, it can very likely provide years of enjoyment and some of that lifestyle we are all looking for.

Cheers,

Greg

[pcmm]

Originally Posted by Brioche

What sort of insurance are you looking for? You can generally get liability insurance without a survey. If you are looking to insure against casualty, you may want to weigh the cost of the insurance against the cost of the boat, and especially against the value the insurance company is willing to put on the boat. A well-maintained boat of the vintage you seek can be a wonderful thing, and many of us sail such boats, but an insurance company may not put much value on it. You might do better to just get liability coverage, accept the small risk of loss, and put your money into maintenance (including rigging).

Not anymore you can't ( generally), I just went through this last spring. I was initially looking for Liability only insurance.. Every broker and company I talked to wanted a survey even for Liability only! and as the difference between liability only and full coverage was only a few hundred more. I sucked it up, got a survey and got fully insured!

[sinnerman]

I will address the insurance part.

I have insurance with Progressive. They required no inspection.

Basically you are insuring for a agreed-upon pay out amount of insurance should your boat be a total loss.

You determine the pay out amount and they inform you the monthly premium. I am paying $153.34 per month for $15K of insurance.

This insurance policy also includes the $300K liability/bodily injury required by the marina.

Cheers

[GerryL]

Originally Posted by sinnerman

I will address the insurance part.

I have insurance with Progressive. They required no inspection.

Basically you are insuring for a agreed-upon pay out amount of insurance should your boat be a total loss.

You determine the pay out amount and they inform you the monthly premium. I am paying $153.34 per month for $15K of insurance.

This insurance policy also includes the $300K liability/bodily injury required by the marina.

Cheers

That's interesting; I made a call to Progressive last fall and they said that a survey inspection would be required. I wonder if it's got to do with the age of the boat or if it's already had a survey within 12 months by previous owner. Hmmm.

[sinnerman]

[QUOTE=GerryL;3747746]
..."Those of you that have purchased a boat like this, did you just suck up the cost and renew the rig yourself? Or were you able to negotiate on this? Or forego the insurance and go sailing? (I'm not inclined to do the latter, I want known good standing rigging/chain plates)...."

I have a 40 year old boat and replaced the standing rigging. It costs about $3K to $4k for a rigger to perform. Easier to do with mast off the boat. Allows you to change lights, mast wiring, halyards, etc, paint the mast.

A much cheaper option is to pull the mast in the shipyard, have it stored there (layed up) and do the work yourself if they allow it.

Mark the turnbuckle thread positions with tape before pulling the mast and bring the marked stays/shrouds to a rigging shop to make new ones. Some West Marine stores (a few) have rigging shops as well. You can run your own wiring, install new lights etc. and save $$$

The chain plates MUST be removed and inspected for "crevice corrosion" cracks. My boat's chain plate failed. My friend was on the start of his oceangoing trip from USA to Portugal when his chain plate failed. The crevice corrosion cracks occur below deck level where they are out-of-sight. Removing the chain plate, inspecting it and re-bedding (sealing) it should be considered a "maintenance item".

cheers

[Sailor Sailor]

Originally Posted by sinnerman

I will address the insurance part.

I have insurance with Progressive.
Basically you are insuring for a agreed-upon pay out amount of insurance should your boat be a total loss.

You determine the pay out amount and they inform you the monthly premium.

I have Progressive, too, with similar terms, with one exception. I was led to believe that it is now a policy of Progressive to limit the agreed value to no greater than the purchase price less 20%, at least for older boats with no new survey.

The policy covers me in the Chesapeake Bay and the Atlantic up to 75 miles offshore, which is suitable for my purposes as a Bay and coastal cruiser.

[GerryL]

[QUOTE=sinnerman;3758168]

Originally Posted by GerryL

..."Those of you that have purchased a boat like this, did you just suck up the cost and renew the rig yourself? Or were you able to negotiate on this? Or forego the insurance and go sailing? (I'm not inclined to do the latter, I want known good standing rigging/chain plates)...."

I have a 40 year old boat and replaced the standing rigging. It costs about $3K to $4k for a rigger to perform. Easier to do with mast off the boat. Allows you to change lights, mast wiring, halyards, etc, paint the mast.

A much cheaper option is to pull the mast in the shipyard, have it stored there (layed up) and do the work yourself if they allow it.

Mark the turnbuckle thread positions with tape before pulling the mast and bring the marked stays/shrouds to a rigging shop to make new ones. Some West Marine stores (a few) have rigging shops as well. You can run your own wiring, install new lights etc. and save $$$

The chain plates MUST be removed and inspected for "crevice corrosion" cracks. My boat's chain plate failed. My friend was on the start of his oceangoing trip from USA to Portugal when his chain plate failed. The crevice corrosion cracks occur below deck level where they are out-of-sight. Removing the chain plate, inspecting it and re-bedding (sealing) it should be considered a "maintenance item".

cheers

I agree with all this. We bought our small Montgomery with a damaged mast; I bought a new mast, bulk stranded wire and staylocks; we replaced the rig ourselves. I'm not opposed to doing it; I guess I just haven't found the right larger boat at the right price for me; meaning the right balance of money out and work required to have a dependable rig. We're looking though!

[sinnerman]

Originally Posted by Sailor Sailor

I have Progressive, too, with similar terms, with one exception. I was led to believe that it is now a policy of Progressive to limit the agreed value to no greater than the purchase price less 20%, at least for older boats with no new survey.

The policy covers me in the Chesapeake Bay and the Atlantic up to 75 miles offshore, which is suitable for my purposes as a Bay and coastal cruiser.

Progressive might differ by region. My boat is a 1984. In Texas.
cheers

[garyfdl]

IMO if an owner isn't willing to negotiate, you accept it or you move on. That said you can always make an offer based on what you think needs to be done, but not disclose the specific reason for the price. If it's not countered or accepted, you move on.

I have a boat of the vintage you are looking at, albeit smaller (27'). It has the original rigging (as far as I know) and I'm satisfied with that. But I sail on an inland lake/the Great Lakes and that's where the boat has been the entire time, so no salt water.

As far as insurance goes? Mine is covered under my homeowners policy.

[GerryL]

I thought I'd update this thread since we ultimately did find and buy a sailboat that fit our budget and requirements. This is the 6th boat we physically went to view, and we both felt that if this one didn't work out we were going to take a break and continue to sail our Montgomery this year, or take our camper on a cross country trip this summer.
Anyway, we found a Morgan 323 for sale about 15 miles from my sister's house on Long Island. When my wife and I stepped aboard, we both were like WOW, this one appears as it was represented. And there was really no deferred maintenance; this was the PO's baby. If he wasn't working or sailing, he was puttering on the boat. He wasn't looking to sell the boat, but recent health concerns are making him move to a motor trawler.
The standing rigging is 9 years old (most boats we viewed had original!), and in the last several years it's had new paint, Mack sails, boom vang, traveler, windlass, anchor, hot water heater, fuel tank, waste tank, cushions, cutlass bearing, shaft and seal, A-B refrigeration, Raymarine chartplotter, Origo stove, mast mate climbing rig, forespar dinghy engine hoist, and Fairclough winter cover. Those were the biggies that I can think of right off. The chainplates were also recently pulled, inspected and rebedded. Rudder was removed and rebuilt due to water intrusion.
I think the owner was surprised we wanted to give him a cash deposit the day we saw it. It was clearly what we were looking for, and it feels really good when we are aboard (although it is still on the hard). We put the deposit down and shook on the deal pending a survey (on the hard) that would allow me to get the boat insured. We hired a very experienced surveyor to have a look. He gave it a favorable review, commenting the condition was well excellent, above average for a boat of that age. I still had trouble with insurance though. We ended up with Boat US.Geico, and we had to negotiate up to a value of 26k. I also was refused at first due to the surveyor's note of a possible fuel leak or drip at the Racor. They want to see yard receipts for work to correct it, or an addendum to the survey. The surveyor was willing to meet the owner at the boat again, and look it over closely. He then wrote an addendum which they accepted, and I got coverage. One other question I was surprised by was "Is the boat more than 15' larger than any other boat you've owned?". It's exactly 15' longer, so we're good. I'm not sure what the ramifications would have been there if it was longer. So we got insurance and finalized the deal. I just registered her in Maine; next week we go to wash, wax, deep clean, change batteries and a couple lines. Hopefully heading to Rockland mid June.
It wasn't easy, but I think we found the unicorn we were looking for. Let the adventures begin. We go from experiencing great excitement to saying what the hell have we done? LOL I think that's to be expected though.
If you're curious maybe you can see photos in my dropbox.
https://www.dropbox.com/home/Scupper's%20Song