Buying a boat on the other side of the world

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by Zeiling

Thanks again for all your inputs. I more and more think that too long passages may be too stressful for the family. I have good confidence in my sailing capabilities, but there’s the big unknown of how the family will adapt to life aboard.

What we are really looking for
1st prio

• Live aboard and sail
• Tropical climate
• Not too much pressure (e.g., to reach certain places within specific timeframes)
• Explore some lonely places with nice coral reefs

2nd prio

• Exotic culture
• Good fishing grounds (-> certainly not the Med)

Ideally, we start in a place where we can spend a few months to get used to the boat and new life. If we all feel comfortable, have confidence in the boat and feel capable of doing a longer passage, then it would be very nice to have the opportunity to head towards some more remote islands, far from western civilization. I recognize that sailing east from Australia does not make sense.

Well, looking at these prioritizations, starting in Queensland checks the boxes pretty well.

Live aboard and sail -- yep, that part is easy.

Tropical climate -- yep

Low time pressure -- easy passages between anchorages, both on shore and to the inner reefs. As confidence builds, the outer reefs are not very far offshore, and are suitably remote experientially. No overnight passages needed inshore, and no crowds, except in the Whitsundays.

Explore lonely places -- see above!

Exotic culture -- well, that depends on your opinion of Aussies!

Good fishing grounds -- I can't really speak to this, for I'm not much of a fisherman, but others seem to catch fish.

And finally, despite your "don't sail east from Oz" statement, if your skills develop properly, the passage from southern Queensland to New Caledonia is not a bad first offshore trip... if you are patient. Our favorite route leaves from Southport, usually in late winter, and while a low sits off the NSW coast. This provides two or three days of westerly quadrant winds, and makes the ~850 mile passage quite pleasant, usually around 5 days duration. And when you arrive, you are in one of our very favorite cruising grounds, with both the delights of a small French city, and lonely, beautiful tropical anchorages literally a few hours away, with all the coral you could wish for. And the return trip to Oz is a tradewind sleigh ride at the onset of the cyclone season. Once back in Oz, moving down the coast to NSW affords more interesting destinations, well out of normal cyclone hazards.

Not a bad plan IMO!

Jim

[barnakiel]

Yep. Queensland is an amazing place to start. It is also an amazing place to spend the rest of one's life!


I can't imagine though how anybody who experienced Queensland can ever return to cold and rainy Switzerland ...


Ooppppssss ;-)


I am dreaming Australia even today - over 10 years after our visit. My gf named some of her recent work after your lovely continent!



barnakiel

[Topspin]

Looking at your timeframe, I would recommend buying a boat in the Med (Croatia, Greece, Turkey) and sailing it across the Atlantic into the Caribbean, selling f.e. in BVI. The market in the Med is favourable, the difficulty level is pretty low and you can decide, whether to spend more time in the Med or in the Caribs. Atlantic crossing is typically done in November/December and takes just 2-3 weeks. You will have to make sure your boat is equipped for bluewater cruising or you have to add the necessary and desireable gimmicks to do so. (Plenty of youtube videos of couples who did it)

In Australia, boats are a bit expensive and you will have problems to get upwind into the Pacific. Importing and selling boats into the Australian market is pure horror, if you want to dig into that, just google it :-)


Sailing on Queenslands coast is nice, but you have to pick the right weather windows. Usually the trades make it easy to go north. Unfortually, there is only a limited timeframe to go south at the beginning of the Cyclone season (Nov./Dec.).

Buying a boat in Central America or in the Caribbean would be interesting, because plenty of sailors who did the Atlantic crossing (or the ARC) are selling their boats there and these boats are typically fully equipped for bluewater sailing and in reasonable shape. This would make it easier to cross the pacific which is a more demanding cruising ground (also plenty of youtube videos for this trip), but you would have to sell in NZ or AU (see comment above). You would be again in a fixed timeframe (Panama canal around March and the turn downwards to NZ around October before the cyclone season starts).



Regards,



-Richard (VK4WRS)

[stormalong]

Originally Posted by Topspin

Looking at your timeframe, I would recommend buying a boat in the Med (Croatia, Greece, Turkey) and sailing it across the Atlantic into the Caribbean, selling f.e. in BVI. The market in the Med is favourable, the difficulty level is pretty low and you can decide, whether to spend more time in the Med or in the Caribs. Atlantic crossing is typically done in November/December and takes just 2-3 weeks. You will have to make sure your boat is equipped for bluewater cruising or you have to add the necessary and desireable gimmicks to do so. (Plenty of youtube videos of couples who did it)

In Australia, boats are a bit expensive and you will have problems to get upwind into the Pacific. Importing and selling boats into the Australian market is pure horror, if you want to dig into that, just google it :-)

Sailing on Queenslands coast is nice, but you have to pick the right weather windows. Usually the trades make it easy to go north. Unfortually, there is only a limited timeframe to go south at the beginning of the Cyclone season (Nov./Dec.).

Buying a boat in Central America or in the Caribbean would be interesting, because plenty of sailors who did the Atlantic crossing (or the ARC) are selling their boats there and these boats are typically fully equipped for bluewater sailing and in reasonable shape. This would make it easier to cross the pacific which is a more demanding cruising ground (also plenty of youtube videos for this trip), but you would have to sell in NZ or AU (see comment above). You would be again in a fixed timeframe (Panama canal around March and the turn downwards to NZ around October before the cyclone season starts).

Regards,

-Richard (VK4WRS)

I would not recommend crossing the Atlantic from the Canaries to the Caribbean as your first ocean voyage. That passage can be and often is one of the roughest trade wind passage on the planet. It is often very squally and a lot of equipment and sails are damaged. I have done it three times. If you want to scare your family away from sailing that's the way to do it.

[SteveSadler]

Going on a year long sabatical is not uncommon. While the SP is wild, huge, spectacular,
culturally extravigant, that doesn't mean you and family can't have a great time sailing the Med and exploring the many islands and miles of coast all with short sails from port to port, skilled boat fixers everywhere for cheap, any part you want shipped in daily.
My first Med summer was an eye opener. Lots of good times and way cheaper than the Carib or Pacific. When you're done, sell it for the same price you bought it. Easy.

[bryrie]

For NZ boats look at trademe.co.nz

[vic008]

Cassidy- what are you saying???.Your typical kiwi built/design (of kauri) is unbeatable. End of story. I wouldn't come to NZ to buy a European production boat.

[yr2030]

I've purchased over a dozen vessels in different parts of the world from where I'm based. That's not a problem. I found 228 this afternoon meeting your specs in Oz and Nz. Personally I would charter until you find one that suits your needs and pocketbook. Owning a sailing vessel requires a bit of upper torso strength and agility. Those qualities I no longer have, so my personal sailboat is a Wharram

[yr2030]

Originally Posted by stormalong

I would not recommend crossing the Atlantic from the Canaries to the Caribbean as your first ocean voyage. That passage can be and often is one of the roughest trade wind passage on the planet. It is often very squally and a lot of equipment and sails are damaged. I have done it three times. If you want to scare your family away from sailing that's the way to do it.

Which is why I prefer a catamaran instead of a mono hull. The passages between islands in the West Indies will either make you a landlubber or the best sailor in the world.


I have taken both a catamaran and a mono around the world twice in 30 yrs. I would never do it again, except in a catamaran.

[CassidyNZ]

Originally Posted by vic008

Cassidy- what are you saying???.Your typical kiwi built/design (of kauri) is unbeatable. End of story. I wouldn't come to NZ to buy a European production boat.

I guess I’m saying that the typical kiwi built/design of kauri is generally reserved for gulf/day sailors and there are not a whole lot of passage-makers that fall into that category of boat.

I wouldn’t come to NZ to buy any boat (let’s for a moment forget that we both live in NZ). I wanted a centre cockpit voyager. The only NZ boat I could find at the time was a comparatively small-volume 40ft boat that sold for NZ$50k more than my 44ft high-volume boat. Had to go to the US to get the boat I wanted.

Many foreign boats come here expecting to sell at huge prices. I know of a 55ft X-yacht that went on the market in Auckland for €800k and eventually sold (a year later) for NZ$480k. Ended up a bargain for someone but never started out that way.

[john manning]

Hi,
I am from NZ and have done your planned trip 4 times. Each time a 4 to 6 month cruise.
Buying a boat in NZ. I have bought 3, over 38ft vessels, in NZ. I have largely ignored the asking price when making an offer. The yacht I have now was the one I paid most for. 76% of the asking price. Its probably the same everywhere but the biggest problem buying in NZ is the Broker. Insist on talking to the owner to discuss the yacht history. Once there if you want to make an offer do the negotiation with the owner. Walk away if the Broker gets obstructive. Check the website www.trademe.co.nz. It has a boat section which covers the widest range of boats advertised in NZ.
There are a lot of foreign yachts sold in NZ by sailors who got here and said that's enough.

Sailing from NZ. As others have said it can be challenging. You need to pick a good weather window not to be kicked around a bit before making Tonga or Fiji. Plan to sail past Minerva Reef. A couple of nights there is a unique experience. ie. Anchored in the middle of the Pacific Ocean, no land for over 200 miles.

Several commentators have said you do not have enough experience for the southern route to or from NZ. Neither have I but I do it anyway. The ocean is bigger than any sailor no matter their experience. However unless your wife is very brave consider flying the family to Fiji or Tonga and getting local crew to sail you to the Islands. Even New Zealanders do this. There are NZ crew who will do this at no cost and fly themselves home. Including me.

Your budget is tight but not impossible. Buying a 1970's fiberglass hull or a 1980's steel hull will be in your price range. Ignore any old electronics on board, it's worthless. Be prepared to install a watermaker and a modern GPS/Radar combination. You will need that nav combination to "correct" the map errors found in the south pacific. I use a Raymarine GPS Radar for this but only because I was the service/sales agent at the time I bought it. My first choice would be Furuno.

If I were planning your trip it would be leaving NZ in May to Minerva then Fiji. (Tonga is hardly worth the time) 3 months in Fiji. Then to New Caledonia/Vanuatu. 4 weeks is enough. Onto Queensland coast of Aus and making an 8 week passage to Yamba. Then across to NZ via Norfolk Island. Sail the North East of NZ during the second half of January and February. If you feel adventurous include a trip to the Marlborough Sounds. If sailing madness has taken over go as far as Fiordland. Note I have left sailing NZ coast till last. With the exception of the Northland Coast its harder than sailing NZ to Fiji.

Most importantly, just do it. The easiest thing in the world is doing nothing, but how will that feel 10 years later.

[barnakiel]

Originally Posted by vic008

Cassidy- what are you saying???.Your typical kiwi built/design (of kauri) is unbeatable. End of story. I wouldn't come to NZ to buy a European production boat.

Kauri is prone to rot. No good if the boat is built in planks. Still a challenge when you build cold molded.


And btw there is virtually no kauri wood left, unless you mean Fiji kauri (which might be another if related species).


b.

[Hugo B]

Hi

I live in Australia and agree with many of the posts that there is much less choice in boats here than in Europe or the US. I would put Europe first in terms of choice and quality of boats and the US a close second.

It is also true that if you bring a boat in from the US you have to pay 10% GST (good and services tax) and from Europe 15%, when sold here. Boats in Australia used to be much more expensive than in Europe or the US, but now that has come down a lot. So I am not sure if you are going to make a profit or even break even if you buy, say in the US, and sell her here. Mind you, some boats are so rare here that they could find a niche market. If you bring a Cape Dory in from the US, I might even be interested!

I think the choice of boats and fitout is very important if you are going to do long passages. I would certainly not go for a Beneteau, Jeanneau or similar. These are coastal boats only. From the US I would go for something like a Cape Dory or Pacific Seacraft but I think it will be extremely rare to find a boat completely fitted out with nav gear, windvane, solar panels and the like. In the ones I have seen these things have had hard use and therefore in many cases (in my view) it is best to start again. That will take time and expense, I would say at least an extra 20% on top of the price of the boat.

Anyway, that is my 2c worth.

Cheers

Hugo

[NevilleCat]

I have never heard someone say NZ Kauri is prone to rot before. Interesting. It is generally regarded, along with Tasmanian Huon Pine as the best boatbuilding wood you can get, which is why it is hard to get now as most of it was shipped all over the world early on.
I would imagine there are very few planked boats built any time in the last 50 years as NZ boatbuilders were early developers and adopters of the diagonal planked ("cold" Molded) method using epoxy and dynel or later fiberglass sheathing.

[Wideocean7]

Zeiling. This is a very interesting post you've made and some really good responses. I'm leaving mu comments to try and address what you want to do.
1. You have an Atlantic crossing under your belt which is good. You said that your plans are a couple or so of years away. It might be really worthwhile you and your wife doing some courses such as RYA Coastal Skipper (for your wife) and Offshore/Ocean Yachtmaster for you. They are invaluable and not (in the theme of things) that expensive. Others have raised the issue of you being the only competent skipper and being incapacitated. Your wife would gain much confidence in boat handling and navigation in case you were out of action. Aside from that celestial navigation is a great thing to occupy your time on long trips, even if you know you can rely on GPS.
2. Buying a yacht is an immense project, especially when considering the worst-case possibilities of long-range passages. Others have better knowledge than I of the value of boats around the world and there is logic in buying from the US/Canadian west coast when you plan to sail west. However, you have to take tax into account when selling as it's a significant cost. I'm looking at a yacht in NZ and it would cost me AUD$16k in taxes to import, plus the costs of making sure gas, electrical and fuel systems are compliant. Yes -all these different countries requirements are an absolute pain in the neck and have put the spanner in the works of many international sales.
3. When you buy that yacht of your dreams, you really need to know that the surveyor is reliable and professional. I know that NZ and Aus have these capabilities but I do not know about the Pacific Islands if you were to buy there.
4. Others have said how challenging the trip from Fiji/Tonga can be. It certainly gained a reputation from the Queen's Birthday storm. I delivered a 39 Beneteau from Fiji to Opua in the NZ Bay of Islands and it was the most blissful sail I can remember. Three days later I flew to Tonga for another delivery to Opua and it was very, very rough. The challenge when sailing from the Islands is that it's a roughly 10 day passage. On departure, there's often little sign of a depression coming out of NZ so you just don't know what you will face. We had (genuinely) 60 knts True but abaft the beam so we could still continue under bare-poles and trailing warps. Make of this what you will.
4. I really get your dream of sailing to lonely places, with exotic cultures. I was there years ago too and nothing would stop me. So here's a suggestion, also taking into account my comments above. Buy a Australian registered yacht in Oz. Oz is easily accessible (aside from Covid) and has the expertise you need. Then at the end of your trip, return and sell it in Oz. No import tax to pay. You fly out early and deliver the yacht as far east as you care. You'll may chose a professional skipper but crew pay for this stuff these days. Then (say) from the Cooks make your way west through Samoa, Fiji, Vanuatu and not least the Solomon Islands. I spent some time in the Solomons and they are by a long way my favourite "lonely and exotic culture" but check safety there first. From the Solomons it's about 1,200nm back to Brisbane from where you could launch for a trip to the Whitsunday Islands.

This has rambled on longer than I intended. Good luck in your planning!

Cheers Andy