Buy Catalina 36 in WA?

[welljim]

Just looking to understand costs of keeping up that kind of boat. First shock was when I almost put an offer for one here in BC (Canada), when I realized that I had to pay sales tax on it, even thought I was buying in the second hand market!! Crazy. I'm now wondering if it'd be better buying from WA and keeping it in Bellingham during the winter. Is that a good idea?

- When buying used boats in WA, is there sales tax on them like there is here? If so, what %?
- Can I keep the existing US registration/flag? What are the requirements? Annual fees or renewals?
- How long can I keep the boat in BC if it's registered in WA? I.e., would I be ok to keep it in BC through the summer?
- Any idea about insurance costs?

Any help appreciated, many thanks.

[jeremiason]

Originally Posted by welljim

Just looking to understand costs of keeping up that kind of boat. First shock was when I almost put an offer for one here in BC (Canada), when I realized that I had to pay sales tax on it, even thought I was buying in the second hand market!! Crazy. I'm now wondering if it'd be better buying from WA and keeping it in Bellingham during the winter. Is that a good idea?

- When buying used boats in WA, is there sales tax on them like there is here? If so, what %?
- Can I keep the existing US registration/flag? What are the requirements? Annual fees or renewals?
- How long can I keep the boat in BC if it's registered in WA? I.e., would I be ok to keep it in BC through the summer?
- Any idea about insurance costs?

Any help appreciated, many thanks.

There are a number of threads on this topic... Try searching them

You cannot Document Vessel with the US Coast Guard, unless you are a citizen of the US. You can register it with Wasington State, but then you are subject to tax there.

Here is the link to the Washington DMV

Here is another link with a downloadable PDF document titled: "Title, Registratio and Tax Responsiblities for Boat Owners"

[Sailor_Hutch]

Thanks Jeremiason!

I was thinking about buying a boat in Washington. Holy Kudzu!

So, according to the PDF you supplied (thanks, I think) a nonresident must pay $500 to WA for the priviledge of purchasing a WA boat, then go back to his home state and pay regular sales tax. Then, said lucky boat purchaser is BANNED from re-entering WA waters for TWO YEARS!!! (Unless he wants to pay WA tax).

I live in NC, and am not obligated to pay state sales tax on boats (in NC). So, I wouldn't have the "tax already paid in another state" exemption. In such a case, I couldn't go back to Washington. Is that bad? Maybe this is all because WA is so close to KALIFORNIA, and they caught whatever it is that they have there! ???

[Sailor_Hutch]

I should add that I do have to pay personal property tax on a boat in NC, but that is completely an "apples and oranges" sort of thing relative to sales tax, and I don't think I'd have an exemption against sales tax (property tax is much lower, but paid per annum - versus one time sales tax).

[denverd0n]

Originally Posted by Sailor_Hutch

I should add that I do have to pay personal property tax on a boat in NC, but that is completely an "apples and oranges" sort of thing relative to sales tax...

I used to live in North Carolina (Apex, actually, just outside Raleigh) and personally I would rather pay a sales tax than have the personal property tax that NC and some other states charge. With sales tax it's one time and done. With the personal property tax you are paying every year. Own the boat long enough and you'll pay a lot more in property tax over the years than you would have with the one-time sales tax.

The bottom line, though, is that if you want to legally avoid taxes and fees you have to consider sales tax, use tax, personal property tax, and registration fees, and add all of that up over the time that you expect to own and use the boat.

Now, to the OP, the short answer is yes, the state of Washington charges a sales tax on the purchase of a used boat. The majority of U.S. states do, at varying percentages. There are some that don't, but the majority of those are non-coastal states. It's nice, for instance, that Wyoming doesn't charge a sales tax on boats, but how often are you going to find a Catalina 36 for sale there?

In the end, you just have to check the specifics for each state that you might consider buying a boat in. They are all different.

[welljim]

I phoned up the tax man, here's the response in case others consider doing the same: if the boat stays in WA, then sales tax is due. If it is removed from the state upon purchase (i.e., not a WA resident boat), then sales tax is not payable in WA (but may be on the boats' final home port).

[jackdale]

Welljim

Unless he boat is licensed or registered in Canada, as a Canadian, you cannot bring across the border.

When you bring across you will have to pay GST and PST (unless you are an Albertan).

[welljim]

Jack, if I live in Alberta I don't have to pay GST/PST, even if the boat remains moored in BC? Would be great if you could point me to the right documentation.

Thanks

[jackdale]

Originally Posted by welljim

Jack, if I live in Alberta I don't have to pay GST/PST, even if the boat remains moored in BC? Would be great if you could point me to the right documentation.

Thanks

You have to pay GST. As you know there is no PST in AB. I am going on the experience of helping to bring a boat in Canada. I understand that the BC is not really keen on the number of AB registered boats in BC. Since the Catalina is US built, you will likely not have pay any duties (NAFTA). But check with CRA and CBSA.

[FlyMeAway]

Lots on tax but not on the other stuff.

I have a Catalina 36 in the Pacific Northwest. I LOVE it. Great boat for our waters.

I live aboard and I'm running about $4500 annually in maintenance for a 2003 in pretty good shape. This doesn't include what I call "consumables" (pretty much anything under $100, e.g., new docklines) or "capital improvements" (things that I decide to replace/upgrade *before* they break). Note that actual costs vary year to year (I'm on a 24-month bottom painting schedule).

[Jammer Six]

Welljim, you need a new taxman.

[ElGatoGordo]

Originally Posted by FlyMeAway

I live aboard and I'm running about $4500 annually in maintenance.

Totally off topic but I'm wondering if that includes moorage and utilities?

[FlyMeAway]

Originally Posted by ElGatoGordo

Totally off topic but I'm wondering if that includes moorage and utilities?

It does not. Moorage alone will run you ~$3800+ a year, and there's no way you could reasonably and preventatively maintain her for another $600!

Note that the $4500 is a long-term number; it includes (slowly) building a running reserve fund (over time) for bottom paint (every other year) and infrequent items (e.g., rigging replacement)

[Uricanejack]

Originally Posted by Sailor_Hutch

Thanks Jeremiason!

I was thinking about buying a boat in Washington. Holy Kudzu!

So, according to the PDF you supplied (thanks, I think) a nonresident must pay $500 to WA for the priviledge of purchasing a WA boat, then go back to his home state and pay regular sales tax. Then, said lucky boat purchaser is BANNED from re-entering WA waters for TWO YEARS!!! (Unless he wants to pay WA tax).

I live in NC, and am not obligated to pay state sales tax on boats (in NC). So, I wouldn't have the "tax already paid in another state" exemption. In such a case, I couldn't go back to Washington. Is that bad? Maybe this is all because WA is so close to KALIFORNIA, and they caught whatever it is that they have there! ???

Wrong.

From BC bought a boat in WA.
As long as you leave WA no sales Tax. In WA
To import to BC today 12% GST equivelent tax. No import duty if built in North America(Free trade) any where else another 9%
April 1 GST repealed Not sure if 12% will change. Back to 7% prov sales tax for boat
You can sail boat back to WA any time. no problem easier if you register in BC. If you keep WA register just expect lots of questions every time you cross. as long as you explain no prob.
When you enter canada declare boat pay the tax keep the recict.
when you register and get BC no you tell them you already paid at border no tax. 6 months later you will get bill. tax offices dont comunicate well.
If you kept reciept no prob they go away.

If you dont want to pay BC tax. you can keep in WA. pay WA tax.I dont know the complications.

[jackdale]

Originally Posted by Uricanejack

Wrong.

From BC bought a boat in WA.
As long as you leave WA no sales Tax. In WA
To import to BC today 12% GST equivelent tax. No import duty if built in North America(Free trade) any where else another 9%
April 1 GST repealed Not sure if 12% will change. Back to 7% prov sales tax for boat
You can sail boat back to WA any time. no problem easier if you register in BC. If you keep WA register just expect lots of questions every time you cross. as long as you explain no prob.
When you enter canada declare boat pay the tax keep the recict.
when you register and get BC no you tell them you already paid at border no tax. 6 months later you will get bill. tax offices dont comunicate well.
If you kept reciept no prob they go away.

If you dont want to pay BC tax. you can keep in WA. pay WA tax.I dont know the complications.

There are lots of complications with a Canadian trying to bring a US registered boat into Canada. Basically it cannot be done.