Burned to waterline..Insurance Unresponsive

[stan murray]

For two years I've been improving an already well equipped Buccaneer 305(never mind, Bill Garden designed and Orin Edson's company built it well-but will never shake the reputation of the first Buc,s)
My boat has had skilled owners including me; deck and hull completely glassed together, all 'tabs' full length, insulated thruout, well wired both 12 volt and 110v, auto pilot, diesel heat, good stove, BBQ, Volvo 28 horse-2003. New fuel tank and water tank glass and epoxy lined, I did several live aboard up fits; 11 gal hot water, sailor chicks refridge, TV movie player, a fresh never sat on Toilet with new plumbing, and a lot of interior wood projects..here it was easy to match the original build quality..no need to be a fine furniture maker.
I have only used the new furling and sails two times. The last time was two hours before returning to my slip for the last time.

Two hour later I rec'd a call from a friend on the same dock at Everett Marina.
"there's a fire -yours is the only burning boat that has not sunk". Four did sink

Marina requires $300,000 liability insurance. Between the 5 boats burned and dozens of boats with significant smoke, melted'plastic' soot hard to clean damage and docks damaged there may be a million in damage. I have about 200 receipts and checks to document much of what I have spent.

The fire totally burned all exterior and roasted interior of my boat. Firefighting water filled the hull up to about the bottom of the alternator so it and starter will need help but I think the engine and trans and on back to prop were not harmed. So that can be salvaged along with 3500 pounds of lead in the keel.

Here is my request for information from members here. I do not know where I stand regarding insurance. I have asked for a copy of my policy but only get a one page 'endorsement'. I want the multi page document. My insurance company asked for the title to my boat. The next day after hearing condition of my boat said he would add 5%($250) 'that is all we can add' I guess that would mean the boat is mine to do whatever at my expense. How do I know? There is ongoing storage at ~$50 per day.
The boat that caused the fire has Progressive Insurance. They wrote me that there may be a problem with limits.
Since my insurance company-State Farm- seems to be on there own side where do I get representation or knowledge regarding how the whole situation works?

[rwidman]

Originally Posted by stan murray

For two years I've been improving an already well equipped Buccaneer 305(never mind, Bill Garden designed and Orin Edson's company built it well-but will never shake the reputation of the first Buc,s)
My boat has had skilled owners including me; deck and hull completely glassed together, all 'tabs' full length, insulated thruout, well wired both 12 volt and 110v, auto pilot, diesel heat, good stove, BBQ, Volvo 28 horse-2003. New fuel tank and water tank glass and epoxy lined, I did several live aboard up fits; 11 gal hot water, sailor chicks refridge, TV movie player, a fresh never sat on Toilet with new plumbing, and a lot of interior wood projects..here it was easy to match the original build quality..no need to be a fine furniture maker.
I have only used the new furling and sails two times. The last time was two hours before returning to my slip for the last time.

Two hour later I rec'd a call from a friend on the same dock at Everett Marina.
"there's a fire -yours is the only burning boat that has not sunk". Four did sink

Marina requires $300,000 liability insurance. Between the 5 boats burned and dozens of boats with significant smoke, melted'plastic' soot hard to clean damage and docks damaged there may be a million in damage. I have about 200 receipts and checks to document much of what I have spent.

The fire totally burned all exterior and roasted interior of my boat. Firefighting water filled the hull up to about the bottom of the alternator so it and starter will need help but I think the engine and trans and on back to prop were not harmed. So that can be salvaged along with 3500 pounds of lead in the keel.

Here is my request for information from members here. I do not know where I stand regarding insurance. I have asked for a copy of my policy but only get a one page 'endorsement'. I want the multi page document. My insurance company asked for the title to my boat. The next day after hearing condition of my boat said he would add 5%($250) 'that is all we can add' I guess that would mean the boat is mine to do whatever at my expense. How do I know? There is ongoing storage at ~$50 per day.
The boat that caused the fire has Progressive Insurance. They wrote me that there may be a problem with limits.
Since my insurance company-State Farm- seems to be on there own side where do I get representation or knowledge regarding how the whole situation works?

Most states have a department that oversees insurance companies. Start there.

[SV Bacchus]

Saw a YouTube of that fire, wow, that sucks! I wish you much luck with this and hope you have a positive resolution.

[leboyd]

Originally Posted by rwidman

Most states have a department that oversees insurance companies. Start there.

All states have DOI and control the insurance business in that state.

The "per event" limit is a problem in situations like this. If the negligent party doesn't have a high enough pre event limit, then generally the affected party's insurance covers the difference.

It might be possible that the negligent party also has a General Liability policy. That can be used to cover more.

About the only other option is to sue, which can take a long time. If the negligent party had the boat in their own name, it's unlikely you will see any amount beyond the insurance. However, if the boat was owned by a company with other assets and that company has additional coverage (GL for example) or assets, you might be able to be fully compensated.

State Farm is a reputable company. Most of these will handle a lot of your leg work on figuring out what the insurance payouts would be from the other party.

Another option is to contact a "personal injury" attorney. There's no injury, but they know and understand how to work the insurance issues. This option is not "free." If done with a contingency, you can expect to pay 40% plus expenses for a lawsuit.

Not knowing what the value of everything was, including your boat. I can give any advice on the "best" option, but I think starting with State Farm is a good starting option.

Fortunately, none of your family was injured or worse. That's the most positive news in all of this.

[estarzinger]

Marina fires truely suck - my understanding is as follows. I have asked someone else more expert if they are willing to comment, not sure if they will or not.

Assuming you have complete hull insurance, State Farm is suppose to "represent" you - they should total your boat and immediately pay you the full value of your insurance. They would then go recover that money from progressive - but that is their responsibility, not yours.

As to the hulk of your boat, if State Farm totals it, then they own it, and are responsible for any daily charges and removal. If you want bits of it back, you would have to negotiate the amount for those bits - but whatever you do, do NOT ask to own the hulk, because the cost of removal and environmental remediation could be very large (unless this is separately covered in your policy which it might or might not be).

Now, if you were under insured with State Farm - e.g. Your policy value does not cover what you lost - you yourself can submit a clam against progressive for that additional amount. But that would be your battle to fight.

If you are a BoatUS member (you don't have to have their insurance to be a member), you can call their membership group and they would help and advise you thru all this.

[witzgall]

Do you have an agreed upon value policy? If so, then your issue may be that while you did improvements to the boat, you did not increase that agreed upon value. If this is so, you may be stuck with that value and not much more. Typically, if you tell the insurance company about the increase in value, they want documentation of this, and then they raise your rates to cover the increased value.

Get State Farm to send you the policy in it's entirety.

Chris

[boatpoker]

Are they ? Have they ? Paid out on the full value of your policy ?

[wcapital]

Others have given a variety of good and hopefully useful specific advice. After an experience with a $25k or so damage claim a few years ago, where we just barely got paid a couple of weeks before the insurance company went into liquidation (while other, prior claims went int indefinite limbo....long story!) - I can give this general advice: BE THE SQUEAKY WHEEL!

Send emails, make calls, even visit offices - of everyone involved. Start (as others have advised) with your own insurer; if they cover your full loss and then take up the fight, then that's all the sqeaking you'll need to do. But....probably won't be that easy. So go after the Marina and their insurer, and the other boat owner and theirs. Cajole, insist and threaten (legally, not physically....though given past experiences with some insurers that urge might be hard to suppress!).

Good luck!

[Captndave1]

Contact your State Insurance Commissioner, Insurance is state regulated. In Florida, insurance is require by law to "make you whole" which means you must be returned to the same condition you were in prior to the incident.

[buzzstar]

Your post is very short of needed information. Just as a start, the name of your insurance carrier and the type of policy, actual cash value, or agreed value. If you do not know these things, a good place to start is your agent or broker. It can be inferred that your policy (etc.) all burned, but you do not say. One huge gap, is the adding of $250, but you do not say to what, nor is there any clue as to for what or how the number got there (standing alone you information indicates the possibility of a agreed value policy). There is a decent chance that the boat where it all started is under insured for the damages that were caused to other boats (the owner of the boat may or may not have assets) and again, no information about liability actually existing. So far it does not sound like you have any problem except the copy of the policy. In times past that was frequently a problem, but usually not nowadays with modern record keeping and computers. Suggestions: 1/ try again with the agent/brokerage, and be polite but firm. 2/ do try your state Department of Insurance, as suggested by several others. If nothing else works, get a lawyer who handles marine insurance issues. BUT, before you do anything, figure out, as best you are able, what it is you actually want/deserve, and who should pay it and how much. It sounds like (although it may not be the case) that right now, you do not even know the amount of your loss and associated expenses. There is no way to tell someone how to handle such a devastating loss, particularly the emotional component, but as they used to say before boxing matches, Protect yourself at all times. This applies because insurance company culture, despite many notable exceptions, is avoid payment if it can be done, and if not, avoid full payment. Best of luck, but the luck in such matters often results from perseverance.

[rosatte]

the boat is valued at what ur policy says dosen.t matter about recent reciets of work u had done if you didn.t get insurance to raise value of boat for work you had done your lose...we have insurance increased every time we do work with receits to prove it sometimes they increase value sometimes they don.t..

[Dave22q]

Avoid verbal communications. Figure out your total loss and send demand for payment to the marina, another to the owner of the boat that started the fire. File a claim with your insurance company advising them that your claim is for whatever is not covered by the responsible party but you must promptly put them on notice. They should have an adjuster contact you to help you through the process. Use registered mail for all communication and keep good records. Your company might have limits on what they can pay but that only matters if the responsible parties are judgement proof (broke). If too much hassle, hire a lawyer. His fee will be part of your claim.
In future you might keep in mind that the cheapest insurance is not always the best value.

[Pete7]

Originally Posted by stan murray

Marina requires $300,000 liability insurance.

That is astonishingly low, but it's a minimum, the boat owner who caused the fire may have a lot more cover. Don't think you can buy UK yacht insurance from the mainstream brokers for less than £5m worth of cover now, the amount on his policy ought to be a lot higher than $300k.

Good luck and as already suggested be pro-active and keep detailed records.

Pete

[Paul L]

Originally Posted by Pete7

That is astonishingly low, but it's a minimum, the boat owner who caused the fire may have a lot more cover. Don't think you can buy UK yacht insurance from the mainstream brokers for less than £5m worth of cover now, the amount on his policy ought to be a lot higher than $300k.

Good luck and as already suggested be pro-active and keep detailed records.

Pete

300 to 500k is pretty typical for US companies. Insurance companies are probably a little shy as we sue a lot.
The additional insurance cost to increase to 1mil is usually not much.

[GordMay]

Greetings and welcome aboard the CF, Stan.
Commiserations on your unfortunate misfortune.