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Old 07-12-2016, 16:28   #16
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Re: Brexit and VAT

My concern with BREXIT is that a British flagged vessel may have cruising restrictions as regards length of stay in EU countries. It could be just like bringing in an American vessel that can stay for in the EU for 18 months before having to pay VAT taxes and others.

I keep a schooner in Palma de Mallorca that is British flagged (SSR). I have Irish (and US) citizenship. I am considering reflagging to Irish registry as the Republic of Ireland (free state) will still be in the EU, hence no stay limitations in most of the countries that I'd want to stay for some time - including Spain -where I've been for 4 years.

Have any of you with British registry considered the cruising ramifications in the Continent and Med cruising regions as regards Brexit? I'd be very interested in your thoughts
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Old 07-12-2016, 16:47   #17
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pirate Re: Brexit and VAT

Not really.. in theory at present if a boats kept in any particular country over a certain period it should become registered in that country.. but its rarely enforced.. unless you upset someone..
Personally (Brit) it'll be pretty much the same as before Spain and Portugal became full members.. and I was cruising in Spain for 4yrs before that happened and no one hassled me.
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Old 07-12-2016, 23:55   #18
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Re: Brexit and VAT

I'm considering reflag my boat to dutch flag....
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Old 08-12-2016, 02:18   #19
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pirate Re: Brexit and VAT

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Originally Posted by K_V_B View Post
There is no VAT sharing in the EU. I assume that UK VAT will just pretty much remain as it is. (VAT is not a specific EU thing after all...).
Actually I believe VAT is EU specific.. pre us entering the EU we had a sale tax of 10%.. upon entry we had to switch across and if memory serves it went up to 15% (and has been rising ever since) and the revenue raised makes up a large part of the membership payment to the EU (Brussels) by all its members.
Will the current VAT in the UK go back down after leaving..??
I doubt it.. I've yet to meet a politician prepared to open their grubby mitts once they've grabbed a hold.. but hey.. if its diverted into the NHS for example I'll be well pleased seeing how its gone from an all aspects health serving body to the most basic.. the rest having been chiselled off.. dental etc.
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Old 08-12-2016, 13:50   #20
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Re: Brexit and VAT

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Originally Posted by boatman61 View Post
Actually I believe VAT is EU specific.. pre us entering the EU we had a sale tax of 10%.. upon entry we had to switch across and if memory serves it went up to 15% (and has been rising ever since) and the revenue raised makes up a large part of the membership payment to the EU (Brussels) by all its members.

VAT is not a specific EU thing. There are more non-EU countries with VAT than EU countries (not all explicitly call it VAT though). In fact the US is the only OECD nation without VAT.
If course, getting out of the EU means that the VAT rate could be lowered. The EU mandates a minimum of 15%. But for example in Switzerland, not a EU member,the vat is 8%.

In the case of the UK leaving the EU (which I still don't see really happening) not much would change for UK registered yachts. Those that are deemed "VAT paid" by the EU will probably keepthat status.

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Old 08-12-2016, 14:02   #21
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pirate Re: Brexit and VAT

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Originally Posted by K_V_B View Post
VAT is not a specific EU thing. There are more non-EU countries with VAT than EU countries (not all explicitly call it VAT though). In fact the US is the only OECD nation without VAT.
If course, getting out of the EU means that the VAT rate could be lowered. The EU mandates a minimum of 15%. But for example in Switzerland, not a EU member,the vat is 8%.

In the case of the UK leaving the EU (which I still don't see really happening) not much would change for UK registered yachts. Those that are deemed "VAT paid" by the EU will probably keepthat status.

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I agree.. its called sales or purchase tax.. and lucky you for not being an EU member with just 8%.. here in Portugal, an EU member, its 23%.. in the UK its 20%.. ahh the joy of more for less..
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Old 08-12-2016, 14:31   #22
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Re: Brexit and VAT

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Originally Posted by kellyp08 View Post
My concern with BREXIT is that a British flagged vessel may have cruising restrictions as regards length of stay in EU countries. It could be just like bringing in an American vessel that can stay for in the EU for 18 months before having to pay VAT taxes and others.

I keep a schooner in Palma de Mallorca that is British flagged (SSR). I have Irish (and US) citizenship. I am considering reflagging to Irish registry as the Republic of Ireland (free state) will still be in the EU, hence no stay limitations in most of the countries that I'd want to stay for some time - including Spain -where I've been for 4 years.

Have any of you with British registry considered the cruising ramifications in the Continent and Med cruising regions as regards Brexit? I'd be very interested in your thoughts
Join the club.

It really isn't a big deal unless you want to protect the VAT paid status. Just wait to see what happens next.

People here in the US are generally overly concerned about the VAT, but in states like California, residents pay more for items than we do in places like Italy, then a state sales tax as high as 10% gets added to the total. In Europe, the VAT is generally included in the sticker price at stores. When we visit California, we're usually paying 30% more than Italy or Spain for most things.
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Old 08-12-2016, 15:10   #23
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Re: Brexit and VAT

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When we visit California, we're usually paying 30% more than Italy or Spain for most things.
Enjoy it whilst it lasts. All good things come to an end.

My view is that the UK will maintain its VAT rules In relation to the EU, so there will be no change in 2 years time. Alternatively we will be treated in the same was as US boaters. No big hardship, just a new set of rules to play by. In any event there is nothing I can see that needs doing now.
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Old 08-12-2016, 16:05   #24
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Re: Brexit and VAT

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Originally Posted by boatman61 View Post
I agree.. its called sales or purchase tax.. and lucky you for not being an EU member with just 8%.. here in Portugal, an EU member, its 23%.. in the UK its 20%.. ahh the joy of more for less..
VAT and Sales/Purchase Tax have a fundamental difference.

VAT is far more onerous and an administrative nightmare because it has to be applied to all goods and services at every point in the production chain, with the consequent nightmare, especially for small businesses, of having to track and account for all tax credits and liabilities.

A Sales/Purchase tax is applied once at the point of final sale to the consumer and is far simpler to adminster.
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Old 08-12-2016, 18:50   #25
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Re: Brexit and VAT

I think the confusion is VAT is common around the world (though it may go by a different name in different countries).

What is EU specific is that they have a normalization of VAT rates (ie: they are mostly in the 20-25% range) and they agree that if you already paid VAT in one country it is not due when importing to another country within the EU.

Example:
- If you buy a boat in France and pay VAT to France, you can take the boat to Italy and it is still considered VAT paid by Italy.
- If you buy a boat in Canada and pay VAT to Canada, if you take the boat to Italy, you owe Italian VAT (assuming it is permanently imported and there are exemptions that allow a significant time for non-EU residents before it is considered imported).
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Old 09-12-2016, 06:15   #26
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Re: Brexit and VAT

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Originally Posted by boatman61 View Post
Not really.. in theory at present if a boats kept in any particular country over a certain period it should become registered in that country.. but its rarely enforced.. unless you upset someone..
Personally (Brit) it'll be pretty much the same as before Spain and Portugal became full members.. and I was cruising in Spain for 4yrs before that happened and no one hassled me.
Not in all the cases, it depends on countries. National laws are different regarding that.

On what concerns the exit of the UK from EC they had put at the head of the negotiations a very hard negotiator, not a soft one and Merkel and other European leaders had made clear that UK out of EC would mean just that and not that no previous ways would be maintained.

I would expect the worst in what regards that, I mean Tax on buying EC boats or in what regards buying boats on the UK by Europeans. It is natural that a market protection will exist from both sides.

What will happen with boats will not be different with what will happens with all the rest of the comercial relations that obviously will not be the same between a country out of the EC and a country belonging to EC.
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Old 09-12-2016, 06:32   #27
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Re: Brexit and VAT

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VAT is far more onerous and an administrative nightmare because it has to be applied to all goods and services at every point in the production chain, with the consequent nightmare, especially for small businesses, of having to track and account for all tax credits and liabilities.
Yes, but it generates multiple occurences of tax liability which means lots of income for Governments and jobs for an army of civil servants and accountants to manage, paid for by your VAT. Someone probably got a very nice bonus for inventing this little wheeze.

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Old 09-12-2016, 06:56   #28
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Re: Brexit and VAT

I guess the reality is that we are not out yet, and until then we will not know diddly...
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Old 09-12-2016, 16:48   #29
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pirate Re: Brexit and VAT

Quote:
Originally Posted by StuM View Post
VAT and Sales/Purchase Tax have a fundamental difference.

VAT is far more onerous and an administrative nightmare because it has to be applied to all goods and services at every point in the production chain, with the consequent nightmare, especially for small businesses, of having to track and account for all tax credits and liabilities.

A Sales/Purchase tax is applied once at the point of final sale to the consumer and is far simpler to adminster.
Don't tell me.. tell the guy in Switzerland.. he's the one who says its the same..
That's the whole problem with the EU.. its onerous and run by grey men aiming for that Franco-Prussian federalist fantasy.
Pete.. my understanding is it does not go to governments.. it goes to Central Admin in Brussels.. and as the annual membership premium goes up.. so VAT spreads to more things.. or rise's.
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Old 10-12-2016, 01:51   #30
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Re: Brexit and VAT

Maybe this will be relevant?

EU negotiators will offer Brits an individual opt-in to remain EU citizens, chief negotiator confirms | The Independent
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