Boat Values

[Ex-Calif]

I think the lowest acceptable price has caveats. As a buyer it's a great deal to get to the "bottom line." As a seller my answer would be it depends.

My lowest acceptable price today might be 2% off the asking price. My lowest acceptable price might be 5% off the asking price after you survey. My lowest acceptable price might be 25% off when juniors college tuition is due.

I have left BAFO on the table with sellers before with an open invitation to call me if they want cash in 3 days. I present it in a (I hope) non-insulting way. "I really like you widget but it's beyond me at this point. I want you to keep this offer and if I haven't found one in the future and you haven't found a buyer the offer stands."

[sctpc]

Originally Posted by Jolly Roger

If you employ my suggested method, neither buyer or seller have to jump through any of these hoops and you quickly find out whether either party is serious. If a seller is not prepared to state his lowest selling price he may wish to hold out for a better 'negotiated' price, but that's his choice. But everybody has one, (it might actually be the asking price), but if you agree not to haggle after they tell you, you either have a deal or you walk. Of course, his broker might recommend against this method, and we all know why that would be.

Well I did and so far no response over the last 6 days so I will now try the other Broker

[Pblais]

Its hard if you are after a one off cat thats been left for over a year but there still asking the same price.

Sometimes it never was really for sale. Many people only sell at their price because they don't care to sell at the current moment. They are not a willing seller. The deck is stacked against you. My neighbor has a house for sale like that. It's for sale but only at one price. He sells cars for a living. He really does not need to sell. He would like to but it's a nice house and he likes it as does the family.

You can never know what the other party means by the answer they give. Over analysis is for people that could not make a deal. Who cares about the deal you didn't get?

With 6 days of delay they have decided it was never for sale and probably did the same thing before. You can make no other offer.

Jolly, If I tell you my lowest price, is it really my lowest price because you asked? No one is required to tell the truth.

[sctpc]

I must admit at worst IT`S $168 and thats that!! But not even hi its such a shame but that was realy nice 12 months ago

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by Jolly Roger

A simple method I have employed after finding a boat I am interested in is to ask the seller, usually through his broker, what is the least price he is prepared to accept, (and you can bet your life they all have one). You must add, preferably in writing, you will either accept it, or decline it, but not attempt to bid it down further. The one exception is if something dire is found, not previously reported, during a survey/inspection/sail.
This straightforward method removes the ‘negotiation,’ and both parties know where they stand very quickly.

We purchased “Southbound” from a very good friend, and didn’t want to negotiate price.
The PO said “make me a stupid offer”. I said ok, a one-time offer, no negotiating.
We offered, he accepted, and we ended up with a very nice (but smaller boat than we’d originally intended), for a very good price.

[Jolly Roger]

Well, it’s been said more than once, you can’t generalize a sales situation, but undoubtedly the best time to sell something, and buy it for that matter, is when you don’t need to. You will always find sellers and their brokers who are old fashioned and won't consider it. But I don’t think six days is very long for them to consider the question. One seller’s broker threw a fit when I suggested it, accusing me of trying to steal the boat. Under my breath I said “so what,” but managed to convince him I would either accept the figure or reject it – no more haggling. As it was I rejected it and the boat is still for sale a year and a half later. Perhaps the guy doesn’t really want to sell it, except at his price, but the broker hasn’t made a bean either.
There is a fair bet, if you get a genuine seller who has a progressive broker, the method can save a lot of messing about. After all, what has the seller to loose, he can tell you to get lost if you break your part of the bargain and try to haggle his figure down further.

[gettinthere]

Boatssold is not policed in any way so brokers can inflate the selling price to make the market look better than it is. I've had brokers tell me they've seen it happen.

Don't let a broker stop you from making an offer. I had that happen to me and regret not pushing to get the offer written.

many boats are documented and you can look up the owner's address, then do a search for their phone number. don't be shy about contacting the owner, you never know what it might lead to. And especially contact the owner if you are having any issues whatsoever with the broker.

Most brokers are not honest and remember, they don't work for you, they don't work for the seller...they work for themselves!

[Brent Swain]

Best not say the" price is too high". Just say "It's a great boat , well worth the price , but this is the most I'm able to scrape together. "

[Ex-Calif]

Originally Posted by gettinthere

Don't let a broker stop you from making an offer. I had that happen to me and regret not pushing to get the offer written.

<snip>

And especially contact the owner if you are having any issues whatsoever with the broker.

<snip>

Most brokers are not honest and remember, they don't work for you, they don't work for the seller...they work for themselves!

I would make sure my broker agreement says that he/she will bring all offers to me. If my broker was getting offers and not passing to me I would kick his @ss.

Contacting the owner means the broker ain't doing his job.

There are definitely mostly good brokers out there. I can't see one not wanting to sell a boat. As you say 1 1/2 years later and the broker hasn't made a dime on this deal. He could've cashed his check a year ago.

Often, I reckon, they know the seller is going to hold firm and is willing to accept only his proce. Fair enough. They also don't want to waste your time, the seller's time and their time with an unnacceptable offer.

I would ask the pointed question, "So has the seller told you not to bring in low offers or does your agreement require all reasonable offers to be presented." Might get an interesting response.

[sctpc]

As its been over a week and still no word today I rang a broker that I have been emailing for over a month, He had no idea who I where, I was off the phone in 15 seconds why when I asked about the boat he said "i`m busy ring me later " this is at 10am on a normal work day if it was not for liking this particular boat I wouldn't keep trying to find out about it.
Its like there is just no interest in trying to sell it and its not just one broker its everyone they put boat up give little or no info then take days or weeks to give the shortest answer to any questions.

How can I put in a low ball offer when I cant even get to make any offer? Sorry rant over!!

[Ex-Calif]

Originally Posted by sctpc

He had no idea who I where, I was off the phone in 15 seconds why when I asked about the boat he said "i`m busy ring me later " this is at 10am on a normal work day if it was not for liking this particular boat I wouldn't keep trying to find out about it.

Sounds like a crappy broker. However, not to defend but perhaps explain.

I have a few broker friends. They have listings from $50k through $XXmillion. They also have lot's of cheaper "off the books" boats they don't advertise.

Obviously if they are "working" a client for a million dollar boat the $50k guy takes back seat. They should at least tell you that they will return your call and specify when.

I was interested in a boat last year. 38 footer that I was keen on. After 5 calls and missed appointments, I couldn't even get on the boat. I eventually stopped calling, got over my fever of wanting a new boat and dropped it.

A few months later he asked me about it and I told him my fever had passed. He apologized and explained what deal he was working on, and eventually closed. I would heve punted me off the calendar too - LOL.

[Jolly Roger]

Hi STCPC (what does that stand for anyway?)
It seems to me, if you feel you really want to try to buy this boat, all you can now do is try to find the owner and explain what has happened. If he has the same attitude as his broker, then you really need to move on and find something else.

[gettinthere]

contact the owner. I can't imagine he is very happy you can't get an offer in.

Lots of brokers are lazy, they think your offer will be turned down and so they don't want to bother with the paperwork. I've had brokers refuse to write offers I made that were 20% below listing. They THINK they know what the owner will accept. But when the offer is in front of them, they may have a change of heart.
There could be other schenanigans going on behind yours & the owners back.
There is a brokerage in Miami that takes in used boats with no real intention of selling them. They use the boats to try to lure you in and then upsell you to their line of new boats. Meantime the owner is paying slip fees and maybe maintenance fees to the broker (and the paid for maintenance doesn't get done).

[sandy daugherty]

An offer must accompany a contract. Few (if any) Brokers would submit an offer without one. As a practice, or in some states a broker is compelled to present all contracts, but they must be legal documents, with very specific terms and conditions.

The broker may be lazy, especially with a boat he does not have an exclusive listing for. If he decides you are just too much trouble (because you tried to sidestep convention and legal requirements) he'll not waste his time on you. He probably has to work 30 lookers to get a buyer. A $7,000 commission isn't much if you only get 4 a year, and even then they'll all come in a two month period.

Asking a seller to tell you his lowest price is a nice thought. But it doesn't work. Even the most practical seller knows that today's low price is not tomorrow's. And he knows you aren't the only buyer in the world. He wants top know what your highest price is. Mexican stand-off. Testosterone confrontation.

For far too many people, bargaining is a blood sport. They care less that what they are getting is what they want than how much they can beat the other guy down or how much they can squeeze out of the buyer: It's all ego. For others they live in perpetual fear that they are being made a fool of: That's still an ego thing.

It would be great if both sides could put aside all ego and emotion. In a perfect world a buyer would know what he wants, and what he is prepared (both willing and able) to pay for it. The seller should know his side of the street equally well, then there would be a deal or no deal. They could split the differance if there was an OVERlap, and go their separate ways if there wasn't. That would be a match made in heaven, and few brokers of my acquaintance would qualify as heavenly agents!

But how can you do that? Easy. Propose to the seller that each of you submit your best price to a third party, who will tell you both if there is an overlap, and what it is. If there is an underlap, you both would have the oportunity to agree to the middle price, or there is no deal. Everything should be presented in dollar values. There should be no unvalued contingencies such as 'with new bottom job' or 'repair all leaking faucets'. It should include a legal contract stipulating precisely what would happen if the sea trial or survey turns up new problems. And neither of you should ever meet face to face; what is written, what is spoken, and what is signalled by dress and body language are never the same.

[Herbseesmoore]

Buyer beware! I should have that sign hanging from the bill of my cap. Oh yeah sellers too, if they are using a broker. I'm very interested in a certain boat. The first one I wanted to look at the broker put me off 3 times with really lame excuses. The boat finally sold after 6 month. The second boat I had surveyed and the surveyor advised due to safety items to not go on a seatrial, the owner would not agree to fix items, 14 mostly small,but a couple serious, boat is still for sale, since Feb 08. The broker add stated "completely and professionally refit." It was neither! On the 3rd boat I heard a rosy story from the broker about the new headliner, it ended up being 8 years old and sagging. I had ask him about the lexan and he assured me it was in better shape than his own personal boat and his was not crazing. I drove over 500 miles to see a busted lexan port with tape covering a 12'' crack. I still wanted that boat so I went forward with a survey. It flunked big time! Tried to make offer based on known expenses, but to no avail. Lots of misrepresentation out there.
None of the ads say tired old dirty boat, unfit to go to sea, are you insane if so call...................
BUYER BEWARE, maybe it sounds better in Latin, does anybody know?