Boat size recommendation. Go large or go home?

[Sojourner]

Jim, Mike, my hat's off to ye both! We got this 53 footer stuffed to her gills...Some days I think I need a little storage barge to tow behind

As for modern boats design being beamier and therefore more storage, I don't know if I agree from some of the examples I've seen. Newer models = beamier, sure. But also far more apt to have windows in the hull, and big (also dangerous) open-plan spaces wall to wall to maximize the appearance of size, both of which eliminate so so much cabinet space an older design has.

My friend has a newish hanse 60-something. Zero bilge storage (all full of equipment or access panels), maybe 1 cabinet in the saloon, minimal cabinets anywhere else. I know I'm a one-trick pony, but our 26 year old amel has something like 30 full sized cabinets, basically a double-wall of them. Plus 4 coat closets, 6-10 huge drawers, 3 big outside lockers, 3 lazarette lockers, and the entire floorspace from stem to stern has bilges for storage (not equipment in place to run the boat)....indeed the bilges under the table are 2 layers deep...you'd be surprised how many bags of catfood can live down in the sub-bilge bilge

The trend toward marina-queens and/or lack of desire for self-sufficient boats due to customer demands seems to make bigger boats with very little actual storage space or tankage. Ie for a liveaboard, not exactly ideal. For me, anyway

[Belezar]

Another opinion, as I researched tons over the years, for the bigger camp. Most of the books I read said get the most you can afford. One thing as you get over 50’ is that I think it gets easier to short hand as systems become electric or hydraulic, bow and stern thrusters appear, etc. There are significant costs of maintaining and repairing these systems, and you’re potentially in rough shape if something quits, but sails go up and down without breaking my back. A cutter or Solent rig means lots of options without much sweat. My small jib is self tacking. As I tried out boats over the years, I always was more comfortable in the larger boats as they move through waves better and often track better. As many have said, a lot depends on what type of sailing you want to do and where.

[Jim Cate]

Once again, I'd like to point out that larger boats are not necessarily more complicated re systems. That is a choice of the owner. I've seen Macgregor 26s with more mod cons than we have on our boat.

So, the argument that larger boats are more prone to failures due to complexity is a false one. They CAN be complicated, but are not always and necessarily so, and you can have size and simplicity if you wish.

Jim

[Jim Cate]

Jim, Mike, my hat's off to ye both! We got this 53 footer stuffed to her gills...Some days I think I need a little storage barge to tow behind

Ahh, but we have but one female on board, so no need for a towable shoe locker!

(just kidding)

Jim

[B23iL23]

Those Amels do have a ton(ne) of storage but then they are designed as long distance cruising machines. In my head, there's a distinction between boats that are used for 3 months in the summer and then put away for the winter vs boats that are long term cruising/liveaboard.


With the latter the boat is your home and you need to bring everything with you. They (Amel) drop that extra cabin and give you a great machinery room instead, which in turn frees up the bilges for excellent storage. You also great the great tankage that you need for serious time away from the marina.


If you take a Hanse and drop out one of the cabins you could then stretch the remaining cabins/salon and have room for additional cabinets, lockers and so on. All depends on the target market they are going after.


I'm looking at an Amel 50 and slowly getting sucked into the Amel way of thinking and getting pushed (nicely) by many Amel owners (it's like a cult ) but I see why people love them. They is so much storage, so easy to sail and manage and so easy to maintain , even if they are all over 50 feet.

Originally Posted by Sojourner

Jim, Mike, my hat's off to ye both! We got this 53 footer stuffed to her gills...Some days I think I need a little storage barge to tow behind

As for modern boats design being beamier and therefore more storage, I don't know if I agree from some of the examples I've seen. Newer models = beamier, sure. But also far more apt to have windows in the hull, and big (also dangerous) open-plan spaces wall to wall to maximize the appearance of size, both of which eliminate so so much cabinet space an older design has.

My friend has a newish hanse 60-something. Zero bilge storage (all full of equipment or access panels), maybe 1 cabinet in the saloon, minimal cabinets anywhere else. I know I'm a one-trick pony, but our 26 year old amel has something like 30 full sized cabinets, basically a double-wall of them. Plus 4 coat closets, 6-10 huge drawers, 3 big outside lockers, 3 lazarette lockers, and the entire floorspace from stem to stern has bilges for storage (not equipment in place to run the boat)....indeed the bilges under the table are 2 layers deep...you'd be surprised how many bags of catfood can live down in the sub-bilge bilge

The trend toward marina-queens and/or lack of desire for self-sufficient boats due to customer demands seems to make bigger boats with very little actual storage space or tankage. Ie for a liveaboard, not exactly ideal. For me, anyway

[pbmaise]

My vessel had over 100 storage areas. Most I left empty, and I owned her for six months before I found the previous owner decided over 100 lbs of outdoor lights a d extension cables would come in handy when painting the boat at night.

Someone once commented my vessel is okay if you enjoy operating an aircraft carrier.

Currently looking at building larger and thinking along the lines of 75ft LOA by 50-55ft wide. One of the biggest changes is number and size of the heads.

[Sojourner]

Originally Posted by B23iL23

l
I'm looking at an Amel 50 and slowly getting sucked into the Amel way of thinking and getting pushed (nicely) by many Amel owners (it's like a cult ) but I see why people love them. They is so much storage, so easy to sail and manage and so easy to maintain , even if they are all over 50 feet.

Ah HAH! I know from experience once you start getting sucked into the Amel cult, there is no escape
But I will say the Amel 50 and 55 are quite different from the 53 and 54....imho a lot of those long distance cruising machine features have been edited out to please the newer markets.... If you have the scratch to buy a 50, consider the newest 53 you can find, throw 100k into a complete lux upgrade/refit, and take the change left over to drink Pol Roger like water and cruise forever

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by Sojourner

Jim, Mike, my hat's off to ye both! We got this 53 footer stuffed to her gills...Some days I think I need a little storage barge to tow behind

In my experience, most people expand to the space available. This is why houses tend to get stuffed with stuff no one really needs. So too with boats (that get lived on).

That’s actually part of the attraction of living on a smallish boat; it forces me to be wise with my “stuff” (BTW, I don’t consider my boat small … many people cruise in much smaller than mine).

Originally Posted by Sojourner

As for modern boats design being beamier and therefore more storage, I don't know if I agree from some of the examples I've seen. Newer models = beamier, sure. But also far more apt to have windows in the hull, and big (also dangerous) open-plan spaces wall to wall to maximize the appearance of size, both of which eliminate so so much cabinet space an older design has.

Originally Posted by B23iL23

Those Amels do have a ton(ne) of storage but then they are designed as long distance cruising machines. In my head, there's a distinction between boats that are used for 3 months in the summer and then put away for the winter vs boats that are long term cruising/liveaboard.

This was the point I made many (many) posts ago. It about getting the right boat for the demands and crew. Large doesn’t necessarily mean good for cruising (which I define as being able to operate independently for many months at a time). I’ve been on many ‘modern’ designed boats twice our LOA with barely 1/2 the storage and tankage. Sure, you can swing a cat in them, but that’s only useful if you have a lot of cats .

What do you need? This is the question so few ask. As Belezar wrote, most advice to boat buyers is to get the most you can afford. This is why I suggest coming at it from the other side, and look for the smallest boat that will do the things you need/want it to do. This will then focus your thinking into what you actually need.

Some people need a 60-footer. Some only need 1/2 that. Only you can know what is right. But if all you do is “go large” you won’t be focused on actual needs.

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

Ahh, but we have but one female on board, so no need for a towable shoe locker!

(just kidding)

You love to live dangerously, don’t ya. I would never say that to my Ann .

[drivn2ironman]

At the end of the day, it comes to what your budget really is! The larger the vessel, the more expansive all the parts become. My brother bought a 53' Morgan, and now has it for sale because he can't afford the maintenance. i.e. my winch replacement is less than $800. He has an electric winch, and needs $7800 to replace it as it cannot be repaired. Just a thought, so you don't make that same mistake.

[sailorboy1]

BTW - the big boat verse small boat and the KISS thing has pretty much been disproven in the KISS thread

[B23iL23]

Don't i know.

Originally Posted by Sojourner

Ah HAH! I know from experience once you start getting sucked into the Amel cult, there is no escape
...

So my taste is more modern - plumb bow, wide stern and sloop rig. That's why the 50 appeals to me. I also like bright interiors and lot's of light which again is great in the 50. I know for Amel traditionalists it misses the mark but I think there is still enough Amel DNA in there to make it work.

Now to stop this going into an Amel thread and answer the OP, for me as a single-hander, 50 feet is the right length. I can manage it but I also have room to move, store stuff and my kids can visit with their friends and we still have space.

At least that's what i keep telling myself.

Originally Posted by Sojourner

...
But I will say the Amel 50 and 55 are quite different from the 53 and 54....imho a lot of those long distance cruising machine features have been edited out to please the newer markets.... If you have the scratch to buy a 50, consider the newest 53 you can find, throw 100k into a complete lux upgrade/refit, and take the change left over to drink Pol Roger like water and cruise forever

[JPA Cate]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

In my experience, most people expand to the space available. This is why houses tend to get stuffed with stuff no one really needs. So too with boats (that get lived on).

That’s actually part of the attraction of living on a smallish boat; it forces me to be wise with my “stuff” (BTW, I don’t consider my boat small … many people cruise in much smaller than mine).





This was the point I made many (many) posts ago. It about getting the right boat for the demands and crew. Large doesn’t necessarily mean good for cruising (which I define as being able to operate independently for many months at a time). I’ve been on many ‘modern’ designed boats twice our LOA with barely 1/2 the storage and tankage. Sure, you can swing a cat in them, but that’s only useful if you have a lot of cats .

What do you need? This is the question so few ask. As Belezar wrote, most advice to boat buyers is to get the most you can afford. This is why I suggest coming at it from the other side, and look for the smallest boat that will do the things you need/want it to do. This will then focus your thinking into what you actually need.

Some people need a 60-footer. Some only need 1/2 that. Only you can know what is right. But if all you do is “go large” you won’t be focused on actual needs.



You love to live dangerously, don’t ya. I would never say that to my Ann .

OMG!

Mike, I have heaps of shoes aboard, it's true. I have flipflops; one pair of sandals, one pair of stream walkers (~15 yrs old), one pair of newer cross trainers, and one older, for the boatyard. Defintely Imelda time. It was the need for orthotics that drove me to cross-trainers.

When we left the US, I had a pair of flip flops, hiking boots, and that was it!
Times change, and our bodies.

Big smiles to you and Ann.

Ann

[daletournier]

The storage thing is interesting.

I cruised for many years on a 32 footer, 200 L water, 120 L fuel. Cruised of the grid regularly, Indonesia, Papua etc. I didnt have a lack of storage or tankage from what I remember.

I now cruise a 47 footer, not as much storage as an Amel but tonnes more than my 32 footer, 840L water, 360L fuel etc, I have it full to the brim, Ive never run out of food ,water ,diesel or lacked of stuff.......2 totally different boats yet the same result, tou just change your habits ie dont shower of 8 times a day.

Mike's right, you fill what ever space you have.

The big difference with a big boat is ,it dosen't sink when you load her up.

The only difficulty I have singlehandling a bigger boat is docking, it's much higher to jump down from , more momentum and I have no bow thruster. At sea it's easier unless you screw up and get caught with to much sail up. I deliberately sail under canvassed alot yet I'm still alot faster than my smaller boat.

Regarding docking I actually dont have a great deal of experience docking my boat, not many docks since I've been travelling on Sukha and " repetition is the master of skill".

[daletournier]

Oh, Amel isnt like a cult......it is a cult

[Saleen411]

One of my best friends spent 8 years on his round the world in a Stevens 47.

He loved the Stevens but said if he had to do it all over again, he would do it in a smaller boat.....AND with a Rochna anchor.

As an aside, he and his wife think I'm INSANE for even thinking about a circumnavigation in a cat.

So what do they say about opinions again?.....