Boat size recommendation. Go large or go home?

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by mvweebles

To answer OP original question, a decent place to look for a scan of cruisers is the Baja Ha Ha fleet. Lat 38 observes average is about 43-feet, which has remained unchanged for last 20-years. If I recall, it jumped from around 36-feet to 42-foot, about the same time the first dot-com explosion of wealth in California.



Baja Ha-Ha Cruisers Rally: Boat Size

That agrees with some data I crunched from a few sources a little while ago in another CF thread on boat length. I don't have it in front of me, but I recall the median size of boats from three different long-distance cruising groups had remained around the 41-42 foot range for decades.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by barnakiel

I do not see where it is about compromises.


The way I see it, it is mostly about our financial limitations.



Compromises are compromises and limitations are limitations. And mixing up the words because we cannot afford this or that is hypocrisy.. . .

I think this is very insightful actually.


But it doesn't mean that there are no actual compromises.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

That agrees with some data I crunched from a few sources a little while ago in another CF thread on boat length. I don't have it in front of me, but I recall the median size of boats from three different long-distance cruising groups had remained around the 41-42 foot range for decades.

I think that's right.


The "standard" size of cruising boats has increased in several jumps. It is not "always increasing".


When I started sailing, a "normal" cruising boat was 32'. Then in the '80's suddenly it was 36' (and we had a 36' boat). Then around 2000 (I guess), suddenly a normal cruising boat was 42'. I think it was Ben/Jenn who did that last one, just by selling large volumes of boats that size for the same money 36' boats had cost previously.


The weight of a "normal" cruising boat has remained surprisingly constant at approximately 8 to 10 tonnes. The same weight, and hence same inflation-adjusted cost, has been prevalent for decades. Spreading it out over a longer boat is beneficial as the boat becomes both faster and more seaworthy, but in the case of mass produced Ben/Jenn/Bav type boats, some would say that structural integrity is being squeezed.

[daletournier]

Right now I'm on the hard and buffing my 47 footer in the sun (one of the many jobs), really missing my old 32 footer, I'd be done by now if I was still on her.

When I sail back to Grenada in a couple of weeks time I'll be really glad I own a 47 footer, faster and much more comfortable. I enjoy having lots of electricity,water, fuel, storage, big galley etc.

[Fuss]

At the end of this year’s Americas Cup, I’m planning on buying one of the foiling monohulls.

[sailorboy1]

Originally Posted by daletournier

Right now I'm on the hard and buffing my 47 footer in the sun (one of the many jobs), really missing my old 32 footer, I'd be done by now if I was still on her.

When I sail back to Grenada in a couple of weeks time I'll be really glad I own a 47 footer, faster and much more comfortable. I enjoy having lots of electricity,water, fuel, storage, big galley etc.

47', I would have one if I could have paid for it at the time. But of course I would have saved extra to get someone else to buff it (haven't buffed my boat in 6 years)

[Ip485]

I guess the IP would be considered about 50 foot.



I think for serious cruising for 2 with guests of another 2 sometimes, it is perfect for us. It gives room for all the toys, frills and whistles and I would genuinely struggle with less room, albeit plenty of the toys etc could be done without!


As to handling I think with the "right" gear handling isnt an issue, albeit until something serious goes wrong perhaps. I am very conscious that at this size taking down sails at sea becomes a serious undertaking and is very challenging because of their sheer weight and size. Fortunately its very rare, and I have only had to do once.


i guess we have an awful lot of kit - in that there is room for a full sized washer, dryer, dive compressor, windsurfer, jetboard, two bikes, scuba tanks, sewing machine all without anything on deck or taking up the living space so that is why I think this size is perfect. Even then I wouldnt turn down an extra 10 feet.


In terms of handling I would add just about everything is powered and this makes a huge difference and is such a great luxury.


Keeping a 50 footer in top conditions is however also a big committment in terms of time and money. Far more than you might think until perhaps taken on. Of course you could buy a new one and probably do next to nothing for a few years once all the bugs were sorted and leave the jobs to the next owner, or get very lucky and find a fully sorted yacht, but in my experience these are very rare unless you are happy to go with whatever the factory thinks is good enough.

[tp12]

You, my bro, are a rich MF

Originally Posted by Fuss

At the end of this year’s Americas Cup, I’m planning on buying one of the foiling monohulls.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by daletournier

...When I sail back to Grenada in a couple of weeks time I'll be really glad I own a 47 footer, faster and much more comfortable. I enjoy having lots of electricity,water, fuel, storage, big galley etc.

I am completely self-sufficient with electricity. I can go for 100 days on my water tank. Diesel is 60 gallons, which goes a long way. And I have tons of storage and a great galley.

But I’m sure your ride is faster, and probably more comfortable .

[daletournier]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

47', I would have one if I could have paid for it at the time. But of course I would have saved extra to get someone else to buff it (haven't buffed my boat in 6 years)

I figured I'd save myself 350 bucks...seemed like a good idea at the time..lol......day 3 tommorow, does Trinidad ever have a cool day?

First world problem I know!

[markpierce]

I would not acquire a boat that couldn't be comfortably handled single-handed. Not only is this a function of size, but the layout of the boat.

Close to controls, dock lines, and dock.

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

Speaking of my own case -- when I was in the market for a new boat 11 years ago, I thought I wanted a boat of about 45 to 48 feet -- something like that. Had a contract on an Oyster 485 which I thought was just the perfect size. Ended up with this boat, which is quite a bit larger in terms of volume than the Oyster 485 -- there's a big difference in volume between a 49 foot boat and a 54 foot boat. And I thought, larger than I needed, which I considered a significant drawback when I was buying her.

...



My next boat will be a little larger -- I'm thinking about 65' -- and the main drawback of getting into that size range is the size of the sails and rigging, which is already borderline on my boat for a single hander or short handed. This can be solved by going to a split rig, which is what I have in mind.



...


I sail long distances and in harsh latitudes (above 60N as we speak), and I like to sail with a full crew when I can -- sometimes 5 or 6 people. So naturally a larger boat is indicated for my use case. But one thing which will be counterintuitive to some people -- I also like to sail single handed, and I am afraid single handing offshore in these latitudes on anything smaller than this boat. The stability and ease of moving around on a larger boat with proper side decks is a massive advantage for a single hander.

DH, while I follow your logic and don't really disagree with most of what you say, I reckon that your proposed new boat fails in one aspect: don't I recall that you said that you would be hiring an engineer type crew for this proposed boat? That is a quantum jump in cost, in responsibility and complexity of operation, and kinda a major difference in life style for most cruisers.

There comes a time when sheer size and complexity overwhelms the possibility of solo sailing and maintenance, and it sorta seems that you may have reached that threshold.

Jim

PS Your statement "My next boat will be a little larger -- I'm thinking about 65" is amusing, for that is a very large increment in volume, is it not? Without doing the numbers, I'd guess an increase of 30-40% or thereabouts... hardly a little larger!

[Hugo B]

It looks to me that the choice to opt for a large or small boats is influenced by two things: one is affordability, which has been mentioned a lot by people, and yes the costs of having a larger boat goes up exponentially.

But the other factor often overlooked is, is why people take to cruising in the first place.

Some people with few financial constraints want to have a lifestyle similar in luxury as what they were used to on land, perhaps accepting somewhat more cramped conditions, but not much more. A large proportion of these will be wealthy retirees.

The other group are people in it for the lifestyle itself. What the former group calls "camping" they enjoy as a genuine alternative lifestyle. These are of course often younger people with less money. But it does not have to be.

Whether you are "camping" or "adventuring" is therefore a question of perspective, but, as mentioned by many other as well, there is no firm correlation as to seaworthiness in regards to boat size. It is all down to build and design, and of course most important the skill, attitude and motivation of the sailor.

I used to be in the somewhat larger camp, but now I am leaning much more towards "the smallest boat you are comfortable with". My idea is that you look for a the boat as a functional sailing vessel first you can live on, and definitely not luxury on the water. For "luxury" I would go to an airbnb once in a while, which ends up much cheaper than paying for a larger more luxurious boat all the time.

So my ideal both length would be: 27 to 30 ft for a single hander/ liveboard and 34 to 38 ft for a couple. Anyway that is my 2 bob's worth.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

DH, while I follow your logic and don't really disagree with most of what you say, I reckon that your proposed new boat fails in one aspect: don't I recall that you said that you would be hiring an engineer type crew for this proposed boat? That is a quantum jump in cost, in responsibility and complexity of operation, and kinda a major difference in life style for most cruisers.

Well, from 54' to 65' is not indeed a quantum leap in complexity of operation. Nor is 45' to 54' a "quantum leap". The volumes increase, but the systems are much the same.



The big exception to this is the rig. I would deal with this issue by going to a split rig. Note what I wrote about the rig of Beowulf, a 78' boat, being shorter than what I have now!!


As to engineer-type crew -- I think ALL of us would actually like to have this. Don't we all refer to cruising as "boat repair in exotic places"? I did have such crew on this boat the first few years, and it was GREAT. I plan to have pro crew again; maybe as soon as next year. Yet one more advantage of a larger boat is you have convenient space to house such a person.

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

There comes a time when sheer size and complexity overwhelms the possibility of solo sailing and maintenance, and it sorta seems that you may have reached that threshold.

Well, solo maintenance is a PITA for any cruising boat of even average complexity. Whether or not it's possible -- do we even want this? I don't.


As to solo sailing -- when single handing, which I do a lot of and love to do, I especially prefer a larger boat, which is more stable and safer to move around on. I find single handing this boat (54') to be MUCH easier, MUCH more pleasant, and MUCH safer than single handing my previous 37' boat.


I have single handed across the Gulf of Finland 4 times in the last few weeks.

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

PS Your statement "My next boat will be a little larger -- I'm thinking about 65" is amusing, for that is a very large increment in volume, is it not? Without doing the numbers, I'd guess an increase of 30-40% or thereabouts... hardly a little larger!

Might be, but not in my case -- I want something which is longer but fairly narrow, so not such a big increase in volume. About the same beam as what I have now would be OK -- 16'. I'm after a big increase in technical space and storage, and an increase in speed and motion comfort. I don't really need any more accommodation than what I have at present.


I'm very happy with the accommodation on my boat (but very unhappy with technical and storage space). Larger boats of conventional configuration are sometimes not so nice - I spent a lot of time on a Swan 90 which belonged to a good friend and shipmate of mine, which was unpleasant to move around on in a seaway.



The Moody 64, for example, is just a scaled up version of my boat with exactly the same spaces and exactly the same problems with technical and storage space. Ugh. Same problem as the Swan 90 with not being able to reach the salon ceiling to hang on to anything (my boat has a wonderful handhold rail running around the salon ceiling). Simply making the accommodation spaces larger is often not worth much, and sometimes even makes them worse.


I'm looking for something quite different to that.

[Seymore]

Big boats just sit at the dock.

Small boats go out all the time.