Boat size recommendation. Go large or go home?

[jmh2002]

@Dockhead

Not sure if you saw my recent thread linking to a great article recently posted by Steve Dashew?

In fact it makes great reading for all cruisers about certain design thoughts and the process of how they arrived at them.

Here is the thread: http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...ry-223713.html

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

I kinda doubt it DH — not given the kind of rather adventurous and off-the-beaten-path kind of cruising you do

Well, I suppose you could do it..., but my suggestion is not to have people act super-human (or crazy), or take on some sort of severe ascetic approach to life.

People sail across the Atlantic in bathtubs … that’s not what I’m suggesting. It’s just that if you approach the question from the other side of “go large,” then it forces us to really examine what we really need, and perhaps even question what they want.

I used to live on a Virgo Voyager, it was ample for me..
The V berth and quarter berth served as storage and the engine bay for tools etc (outboard version).
Used it for S coast and cross Channel sailing 9mths and 3mths plugged into a marina when it got cold.. Loved its 6ft headroom and the saloon converted to a permanent double berth was great.
Then I decided the time had come to sail South, my then GF decided she wanted to come with me so a bigger boat was needed.. viewed quite a few but settled on the Westerly Longbow.. looking into the saloon from the cockpit I thought I could open a disco.
More than enough tankage and a ton of well thought out storage space.. a very cruiser friendly boat..
We ended up sailing her South to the Med where we cruised full time for a few years till her impending first grandchild called her home.
Ignore the French plastic production boats, they dont cater for live aboard thats why one needs over 40ft for 2 people to live aboard.. and even then they are more weekenders than long term live aboards.

[tp12]

Originally Posted by dockhead

Dashew cruised tens of thousands of miles in this boat, with just his wife for crew, and said it was the most docile and easy handling boat he'd ever sailed on.

This is true. However, it's also informative to know that his wife didn't feel the same way. After moving to the FPB she mentioned, on their website describing the FPB design process, that she was intimidated by the systems on Beowulf.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by jmh2002

Even when trying to take a more minimal approach as suggested by Mike, some extra length can still often be helpful.

So, a 37 foot boat in a 45ft hull for example, but not filled up with 45ft worth of stuff.

So, longer than the 37, so faster, but lighter than the 45, so also faster than that too. And in both cases a better motion because of the longer lighter ends.

Yes you do pay a bit extra when painting the bottom or going to a marina.

Dashew also made use of this simple concept. His boats tended to have less accommodation than their length suggested.

Indeed. Dashew's Sundeers are basically 45 foot boats in terms of accommodation -- in 65' LOA. Huge advantages to that approach. It's a virtuous cycle of faster and more stable and seaworthy, more easily driven so requiring less sail area, etc. etc. Plus you get really useful technical space in those light ends. To my taste it's a really excellent formula.



Keep in mind also that the cost of building a boat is very closely related to weight. So when you spread out a similar amount of accommodation and same systems over a longer but narrower boat, it's not as much more expensive as you would think.


You pay for it in marinas, but some people don't spend much time in marinas

[El Pinguino]

Originally Posted by Faye

Hi All,

We have 33ft beneteau that we plan to sell this winter and upgrade to something bigger for cruising on (mainly because we are sick if climbing over each other to get out of bed and after a Center Cockpit)

I wondered what size boat most if you have? Is bigger the better or from experience is this more tricky when it comes to mooring or a hiring in certain spots. I used to be an ex sunsailer on flotilla and went to Greece a few years ago having worked there and it was ramed with lots more yachts than in 2007! I couldn't get a spot on a 31ft and got turned away twice!

So I'm sure this has been on everyone's mind and answered thousands of times. What size is the best size?!

I'm biased... however.... the answer is 39 feet....

In my experience most marinas in Aus/NZ/Chile charge quite a bit extra for boats 12 metres and over..... 39 feet just squeezes into the sub 12 metre bracket. Not sure if this is how the charge in Europe.

You could do worse than look at Westerly Sealords and Oceanlords. The Sealord ticks the sub 12 metre box. The Oceanlords are newer, and over 12 metres and some come with island berths in the aft cabin.... so you can fall out on either tack.

Apart from that they are essentially the same boat.

https://westerly-oceanlord.co.uk/gui...rly-oceanlord/

https://www.yachtworld.co.uk/boats/c...erly/Oceanlord

[jmh2002]

Originally Posted by tp12

This is true. However, it's also informative to know that his wife didn't feel the same way. After moving to the FPB she mentioned, on their website describing the FPB design process, that she was intimidated by the systems on Beowulf.

Yeah, coming from a racing background I have some familiarity with fast performance boats. And having been aboard and sailing on Beowulf, that thing is still a big powerful beast no matter how you look at it.

I imagine that it could possibly be quite intimidating if you weren't on top of things, and both Steve and Linda were already starting to get older.

Still it was quite neat to raise anchor, hoist sails, and bear away out to sea in the trades all while standing in the cockpit twiddling the remote control.

That was pretty revolutionary back then.

[tp12]

And what a weapon she is. I'd give up a testicle to sail that boat (no biggie, I've had a vasectomy [emoji23]).

A performance beast and piece of sailing history

[Joli]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

Indeed. Dashew's Sundeers are basically 45 foot boats in terms of accommodation -- in 65' LOA. Huge advantages to that approach. It's a virtuous cycle of faster and more stable and seaworthy, more easily driven so requiring less sail area, etc. etc. Plus you get really useful technical space in those light ends. To my taste it's a really excellent formula.



Keep in mind also that the cost of building a boat is very closely related to weight. So when you spread out a similar amount of accommodation and same systems over a longer but narrower boat, it's not as much more expensive as you would think.


You pay for it in marinas, but some people don't spend much time in marinas

If you want windward abilities a Dashew boat is probably not the best option, unless you want to motor sail. The Dashew boats are optimized for off wind sailing.

[jmh2002]

Somewhat true, but if you want windward abilities many cruising boats are not the best option.

This is especially so when they are setup in the common manner that most cruisers keep their boats - smallish boat, overloaded, a lot of stuff lashed on deck, poor sails, and often poor sailing ability too.

So it's all kind of relative.

[sailorboy1]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

This way of thinking doesn’t really get you anywhere, except to buy the biggest you can afford, which is what most people seem to do.

BTW, implicit in the "smallest you can live with,” is also the notion of being too small. That’s why I said I think it wiser to look at one’s needs/wants first, and then match the boat to them. I’ll quote myself:

In the 3 years I've been cruising I haven't seen any sign of "buy the biggest you can afford". Most cruisers are retired and a good percentage are pretty well off. Yet for the most part I would guess that 75% of cruisers I've seen are on boats 38-42' (really more 40-42') that are 15+ years old. I don't think in the marina I'm currently at there is a sailboat bigger than 45'. Cruisers with a sub 40' boat generally all have the same complaint about their boat, which is the smaller fuel and water storage over the 40' boats. I know the main reason I'm on my boat is the master bed and the tankage size.

On the smaller than 38' boats I've come across a a few fall into the 32-36 range and I think I've only run into maybe 5 active cruisers on boats less than 30'.

So from a "who is out and what are they on" currently a 40-42' boat is the size than falls into the "not too large" and "not too small" of boat size comprise based on my observation.

yes there are exceptions

[sailorboy1]

BTW - I bet for most cruising boats the comprise isn't about size of big/small. It's about cost/comfort.

[jmh2002]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

...I would guess that 75% of cruisers I've seen are on boats 38-42' (really more 40-42') that are 15+ years old. I don't think in the marina I'm currently at there is a sailboat bigger than 45'. Cruisers with a sub 40' boat generally all have the same complaint about their boat, which is the smaller fuel and water storage over the 40' boats. I know the main reason I'm on my boat is the master bed and the tankage size...

...yes there are exceptions

I would concur with that. And when talking about the average cruising boat out there (especially with retirees onboard) I don't think much has changed with this situation for years.

When watermakers came along it was common to convert an existing water tank to fuel, to somehow 'get the best of both worlds' with more fuel and more water (capability).

Hence the suggestion of more length, not so much to add more accomodation, but to add more technical space, even if that is just bigger tanks.

I for one hate having jerry cans (or anything actually) lashed in deck, especially offshore on a passage. But on many boats there is no other option.

[mvweebles]

Originally Posted by Faye

Hi All,
I wondered what size boat most if you have?

To answer OP original question, a decent place to look for a scan of cruisers is the Baja Ha Ha fleet. Lat 38 observes average is about 43-feet, which has remained unchanged for last 20-years. If I recall, it jumped from around 36-feet to 42-foot, about the same time the first dot-com explosion of wealth in California.

Baja Ha-Ha Cruisers Rally: Boat Size

[barnakiel]

I do not see where it is about compromises.


The way I see it, it is mostly about our financial limitations.



Compromises are compromises and limitations are limitations. And mixing up the words because we cannot afford this or that is hypocrisy.


One can opt for a small boat for other reasons too:


- doing extreme stunts (Berserk), extreme sports (Mini),
- due to age or mindset (Chiles, Yrvind),
- etc, etc.


But these are rare and few cases and will always exist - any species needs such outliers to improve the chances of survival just in case another global cooling event happens.


Our boat is 26' and today I am no longer looking towards a bigger one. But 15 years ago when we were buying, I did want a 30' boat, just could not get what we wanted (few made of the type we wanted). And so we settled on a 27', while the 33' step up with 2x the displacement seemed 'too big' (given our then skills and experience then).


Was that a good choice? Well, it was THE choice. Looking back, I am 100% positive anybody who can handle a 27' can handle a 33' as well as a 43'. Except maybe some very old or very wee people.


The Dashews were not cash limited and they went big. And they were right.


Do not go over the top and get a big boat only because it is bigger. But if your budget is right and if you know how to sail, get a boat at the top size bracket of what you see as your mental size bracket.


I have sailed an Open 40 boat it did feel big at all!
I have sailed a typical 32' boat with barn door and it felt a bit too much!


X' NOT = X'.


The 40' was half the weight of the 32' though ......



I do not say go big. I say do not let the urban legend of smaller is better make you chose the wrong tool for your job.


Cheers,
b.

[sailorboy1]

Originally Posted by barnakiel

Our boat is 26' and today I am no longer looking towards a bigger one. But 15 years ago when we were buying, I did want a 30' boat, just could not get what we wanted
.

talked yourself out of the BIG boat LMAO