Boat Recommendation - 35-45' Bluewater Boat with Two-Cabin Floor Plan ?

[capt.cam]

My wife and I plan to sail away in the late fall of 2014 or early Spring 2015. We have two young girls who at that stage will be 5 and 8. We’re looking for boat recommendations. At this time we live in Northern California but could purchase anywhere.

Budget: $50,000 USD sail away. We are looking for something 35’-45’ with two cabins, simpler the better at this budget. This could be 20K purchase price and then 30K investment in sweat and parts or 50K ready to roll or any combination in between. Obviously safety is #1 but agility are speed are also up there in priorities. The total plan is to save 150K USD. 50K would be to sail away and then 25K per year for 4 years, if we make 5+ years, we’ll have to stop and work. In the past I worked in the yacht charter industry as a skipper with Sunsail, have taught sailing on the San Francisco bay and have good boat repair skills. I’ve also delivered boats between the Caribbean and the Maldives so have offshore experience. My wife did the Atlantic with me so she’s on board. We’re hoping to spend 4-6 years circumnavigating via the equatorial routes then dipping down to Cape Town and possibly up into the North Sea for a summer.


Any boat recommendations would be great!

[Pete7]

The opposite of what you have asked for but would a 3 cabin ex charter yacht Jeaneaus not work for you? with each child having there own stern bedroom? That leaves you and wife in the forepeak. Just a thought.

Pete

[capt.cam]

It is a good thought, I know those boats can circumnavigate but I envisioned myself in something a little heavier. I must admit I love the agility of those boats.

[maxingout]

With your budget I would look at a 35-37 foot monohull.

When I first cruised in the Caribbean 25 years ago, the average cruiser that I met was in a sailboat 32-37 feet, and it wasn't a floating condominium. Over the years, expectations have changed as people seek to replicate their shoreside existence and translate it to the seven seas.

I still favor the smaller vessels. I have lived out of a Land Rover Defender and been quite happy. A 32-37 foot sailboat seems like absolute luxury to me.

We did our circumnavigation on a Privilege 39 catamaran because my wife doesn't like heeling over. I would have happily made the same trip in a 37 foot monohull.

[sabray]

Thinking a tartan 37 could fit the bill. First blush that's what came to
Mind

[goboatingnow]

you wouldnt go wrong with a Beneteau, though the budget is very tight. Id stay down at the 30-35 foot end

dave

[csmithers]

You will have to make a sacrifice somewhere with that budget. Be prepared to get something that will work but won't be exactly what you want.

[Adelie]

Originally Posted by capt.cam

fall of 2014 or early Spring 2015. We have two young girls who at that stage will be 5 and 8. We’re looking for boat recommendations.

Budget: $50,000 USD sail away. We are looking for something 35’-45’ with two cabins, simpler the better at this budget. This could be 20K purchase price and then 30K investment in sweat and parts or 50K ready to roll or any combination in between. Obviously safety is #1 but agility are speed are also up there in priorities. The total plan is to save 150K USD. 50K would be to sail away and then 25K per year for 4 years, if we make 5+ years, we’ll have to stop and work.

Very tough problem: The 4 people, 2 cabins, $50k sail away and 35-45' is a hard combo meet without getting lucky in finding the boat. If you have the time and willingness to travel a lot to view boats the odds get better.

4 people means 3 good or excellent seaberths, 1 for each offwatch person, plus a place for the on watch person to sit without bumping a sleeper. Excellent would be a pilot berth, very good would be a quarter berth, good would be a settee that has to be converted every night. Berths in an aft cabin would also be good, the motion at the end of the boat could keep it from being very good.

Let's say 50% of purchase price for outfitting/upgrades. Assuming you can't search over an extended period (more than 1 year) since you need time to upgrade and shake the boat down, lets also assume you are going to get an older stock boat.
$35K purchase in the 35-45' range means 1960's & 70's boats.

Your complement of 4 includes 2 kids who initially would not be able to contribute much to normal sailing and will be a slight distraction in bad situations, one parent will have to periodically check on them, and no way are you going to let them on deck when things are bad so they can't contibute even marginally. So in essence you are double-handed or slightly less. If you had money to burn you could get more, better and newer equipement which would allow you to sail a bigger boat. On a tight budget with less equipement, I would top out under 40'. L&L Pardey, following the Cabo San Lucas fiasco in 1982, observed in one of their books that 40' was too much for a couple to handle in a very bad anchoring situation. Technology has improved since then, but if you don't have the money to buy that technology, go with the smaller boat. So let's make the size range 33-37'.

Size and price will conspire to make the 2 cabin requirement almost impossible. The only possibility I can think of that would meet the other criteria is the Morgan Out Island 36 with an aft cabin. This creates additional problems in that you now have a center cockpit meaning wheel steering which requires more maintenance and makes wind-vane self steering harder to set up. I expect there are some other options out there but they aren't coming to mind.

I assume the 2 cabin issue is mostly about privacy for all. Assuming that each kids permanently gets a bunk, a curtain, reading lamp and personal fan will go a long way for them. For the adults in port you will get the forepeak. Underway you will be bunking in the main cabin, but you will also each be spending a lot of time on watch in the middle of the night when everyone else is asleep and loneliness may become a problem. The problem of visitors aboard that stay late keeping the kids up probably will come up rarely.

Privacy-wise for the kids, 1 quarter berth each would be the best solution, easier to curtain off and a bit farther out of the main cabin.

Ignoring the 2 cabin requirement the boats that come to mind are:
Pearson 10M-Skeg rudder, adaquate SA/D but room to improve.
Cal 34.1 - very Good SA/D, 2 quarter berths, fixable minor balance problem
Cal 34.3 - very Good SA/D, single lowers
Ranger 33 - very Good SA/D, 2 quarter berths,
Columbia 34.2 -raised deck so lots of deck space.
Morgan 34 -2 quarter berths, center-board
Tartan 34c - center-board
Cascade 36 - very Good SA/D, layout varies as many owner finished.
Cal 36 - Excellent SA/D, nice wide side decks
Yamaha 36 - Excellent SA/D, 2nd cabin aft with double berth, see I already found another option.
Ranger 37
Tartan 37 - Good to Excellent SA/D depending on centerboard.

To me a very good SA/D is in the 17's, excellent is above that, adaquate is in the 15's. Published data is almost certainly for the light-ship condition, loaded for cruising the value is going to drop, more so for smaller boats. There is no magical number you must meet for your boat to be 'good, but the number is indicative of light air performance. On a budget you want good light air performance or you are going to motor a lot more, read spend money on fuel.

With the Pearson 10M the boat has room to add length to the boom which means you would need to add a bowsprit to keep the boat balanced. Both would add sail area and improve light air performance. The cost would be a new main and big genoa, and maybe also the lapper as well as the rigging costs.

The Cal34.1 has a slight weather helm problem. I have a friend with one for whom reefing a bit early was the solution. Also, I have seen a bowsprit addition that cured this. The Mark 2&3 models used a shorter boom and taller mast.

The only reason there is a Yamaha on the list is because there is a project boat for sail in OH for $19k, normally they would well out of price range.

My favorites would be:
Cal 34.1
Cascade 36
Cal 36, currently one in Mexico for $19k, don't know condition.

In order to make budget you will need to go minimalist:

drifter for ease of handling short handed, especially at night. A codeZero s significantly more expensive for the same size boat, and a spinnaker needs more equipement ($) and may require waking help to deal with at night.

When you do motor, 4kt boat speed is still making you 100nm/day and saves a lot on fuel, even compared to 5kt.

Used Aries or monitor windvane, new if there is money in the budget, but definitely better than an autopilot, which are cheaper to buy in and of themselves but require more batteries and charging which also cost (and add weight to the boat) and are harder to maintain. A light backup autopilot for motoring or very light airs, but not for normal use.

Manual windlass, electric would be very nice but the secondary costs involved with batteries and charging need to be considered. Electric is the first upgrade over minimalist I would consider, making anchoring with oversized anchors possible and reanchoring easier to contemplate when the set is iffy can only make things safer.

Get older anchor designs, CQR, Bruce and Danforth/Fortress used. The newer designs are somewhat better but have not hit the used market yet. My reccommendation would be a CQR main, Bruce backup, a Luke rock/weed, a small danforth for a stern/kedge anchor and a really oversized Fortress as the ultimate storm/backup anchor.

Get a tiller, cheaper up front, easier and cheaper to maintain, no packing gland below the waterline, easier to hookup to a windvane.

Atomic 4: Much cheaper up front, poorer fuel economy, not as safe as diesel but not dangerous per se. If anyone wants to dispute this ask them if they have propane for the stove on board.

Build a hard dinghy that you can row well, saves on fuel costs and is repairable. For the smaller boats you can build a nesting dinghy that can live on the cabin top. For the larger boats a regular dinghy is possible, or you can still go with a nesting dinghy but have it be 11' or 12' instead of 8' or 9'. An second-hand inflatible would be backup.

If you wanted to reconsider the budget a little my reccommendation would be a Cal40
-excellent SA/D
-wide side decks
-2 secluded quarter berths and 2 pilot berths as well as 2 settees and the v-berth.
-Reputation for durability, several have been RTW.
The tradeoff is you would be harder pressed to handle the boat in bad conditions sailing or anchoring, nothing can be manhandled, everything has to be finessed. Budget-wise you can pick them up in the $40-50k range, so if you can work it out to live on $20k a year that leaves you $20-30k to outfit.

I do most of my boat info research at SailboatData.com - sailboat database with specifications, drawings and photos, more than 8000 listings

Photos, prices and availability I research at Boats for Sale, New and Used Boats and Yachts - YachtWorld.com

Good luck

[Pete7]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

you wouldnt go wrong with a Beneteau, though the budget is very tight. Id stay down at the 30-35 foot end

dave

Its pushing the budget a bit and well lets be honest its a 9 year old charter boat that has seen lots of regattas, corporate entertaining and sail training. However, at least is should be original and have been maintained, not some amateur making poor modifications. There is more than one available too.

http://uk.yachtworld.com/boats/2002/...United-Kingdom

Pete

[vtsailguy]

I know this is an old thread, but I am in EXACTLY the same position, same budget
http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...ser-98719.html

One major difference is that I have 3 kids, not 2.

After looking around for boats with multiple cabins, and reading on cruising blogs a bunch, I have come to realize I don't think I need cabins, I need little holes for them to "hole" in in, draw the curtain and have a place they call their own.

This makes me think that I am looking for the same boat spec as the OP, but something with THREE SINGLE berths that can be "closed off". A combination of quarter or pilot berths. I can easily imagine my 6 year old nesting in a pilot berth with a lee cloth closing him off and nesting in there.

I have looked at Tartan 41, Pearson 40 and Cal 40 that have these type berths, but they are a bit big for what I think I can (more or less) solo with only minimal help from my First Mate.

Any other suggestions?

[tropicalescape]

Originally Posted by vtsailguy

I know this is an old thread, but I am in EXACTLY the same position, same budget
http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...ser-98719.html

One major difference is that I have 3 kids, not 2.

After looking around for boats with multiple cabins, and reading on cruising blogs a bunch, I have come to realize I don't think I need cabins, I need little holes for them to "hole" in in, draw the curtain and have a place they call their own.

This makes me think that I am looking for the same boat spec as the OP, but something with THREE SINGLE berths that can be "closed off". A combination of quarter or pilot berths. I can easily imagine my 6 year old nesting in a pilot berth with a lee cloth closing him off and nesting in there.

I have looked at Tartan 41, Pearson 40 and Cal 40 that have these type berths, but they are a bit big for what I think I can (more or less) solo with only minimal help from my First Mate.

Any other suggestions?

did you look at the ODay 39.9?

[vtsailguy]

Hmm, I have not. Could that make a Carib 1500 rally?

[bluemoose]

I would look for an Alberg 37 MkI with the two quarter berths. One "pilot berth" can go at the dinette for the smallest. (would require some fabrication work, but you'll need that).

I've been in Genesis down in FL (you'll find her for sale on the Alberg37.org site), and although not that layout, she is very nice and in "sail away". Others that you can get for $30k will require some investment before going down to BVI or Auckland....

Alberg 35's are a little cheaper....

Good Luck,

[vtsailguy]

Hi Blue, thanks.

You mean fabricate something behind the dinette on the shelf?

[AiniA]

Might consider a Niagara 35, the original interior, not the Encore version. It has a single quarter berth and a double quarter berth that could be divided. They also made some with either a full size v-berth or a child size v-berth but then you give up the sail lockers/workshop up front. How old are the kids?