Average List vs Sell Price

[tardog]

Please take my poll to help figure out what the average boat actually sells for, versus what it is listed for. (Poll is posted as discount off list)

[Fishspearit]

One important issue that your poll doesn't address is whether you are talking about the boats INITIAL list price, or the price that it's listed at when it finally sells. There's usually a big difference between the two.

[David M]

I have been looking at boats listed in YachtWorld in the 50 foot range and have noticed about a 30% to 40% difference between the new models and their older similar models that are 6 to 10 years old. Of couse this does not take into account the cost of inflation for the newer models. For boats that have been in charter service, their values are even lower by perhaps another 10% to 20%. This of course is a generalization and there are specific examples of boats outside of this generalization.

[Ex-Calif]

Let's not overcomplicate this.

It's a great question and of course some boats won't discount.

In our case we got 18% off what the owner initally asked for.

[waterworldly]

GREAT survey.

[irwinsailor]

A motivated seller can be a wonderful thing to find. In our case it was about 60% off his new lower listing price.

[scotte]

I bought used, well over 25% off list...

[ronniesimpson]

i got 0% off of list price, but i still think i did pretty well in buying the boat

[Microship]

I got mine before it hit Yachtworld or appeared in the Cruising World ad, so alas there wasn't a lot of negotiating space. I managed about 5%. Had it been languising in YW and racking up ongoing moorage fees, that might have been different, but the combination of "new on the market" and "eager buyer" pretty well kept it at asking price.

In my case, that was compounded further by there being no comps... so research into the boat's real value was extremely difficult. Designers like to see their babies sell for as much as possible, brokers are of course no help whatsoever, and surveyors always seem to conclude that a vessel is worth (coincidentally) just what the agreed price happens to be. It's a jungle out there, and I hope I never have to go through it again... this was my third time, and I almost started writing a book about the perils of the process!

-Steve

[Fishspearit]

I understand the purpose of the poll, because I was asking the same question when I started seriously looking at boats several months ago. But after driving around to several states and looking at lots of different boats over a wide range, the difference in value/asking price is all over the place. I think that you have to look at boats priced 30% over your budget because some are that overpriced. Others have motivated sellers who have dropped the boat down to it's true value, and they're just not going to take a lowball offer.
I agree with microship about 'the perils of the process' and there probably should be a book. I wasted a lot of money because of unscrupulous brokers writing deceptive descriptions and posting misleading photos. The bottom line is that YOU CAN'T TELL SH!T about a boat from the internet! You just have to go look at them. Often the liveaboard boats are the most overpriced, because the owners are so emotionally attached to their home. They will bend your ear with such pride in their voice about how they built the cheesy plywood shelving, and tell you 'don't worry about the way the engine looks, it runs great!'. You can't tell them the sad truth that the boat is worth half what they think and they will just have to wait another year until they are frustrated,disappointed, and angry before they finally drop the price to where it sells.
I think there is value in using a buyers broker if you can find one that you trust. They get more info from yachtworld, so when you see the ubiquitous "Owner motivated, price reduced for immediate sale!" the broker can tell you that change was done a year ago. They can tell you how long it's been on the market and how far the price has dropped. Of course, the selling brokers also know this and usually put the boat on the market at an initially rididculous price, then drop it after a few weeks so that it looks like more of a value than it really is.
The only real solution is to be able to asess the value of a boat yourself or with a friend, and base your offer on that. The asking price is in a sense irrelevant to the buyer, other than as a way to decide which boats to spend your time looking at. My guess is that most boats sell for 25-30% less than they initially ask, but often end up dropping the price to within 10% before actually selling.

[schoonerdog]

I'd do what they suggest above, look at the listing prices for your boat, plot it out by years in a spreadsheet so you can get a trend line of it's prices and you can exclude outliers on the upside (I've seen boats sit for sale for 4 or 5 years before finally dropping by 50% because owners were unrealistic on price). Then basically assume that prices that the boats sell for will be around 10-20% below the listing price on your normalized graph. Last, never let yourself get emotionally attached to a boat, make sure your net is broad enough that you are looking at 5 to 10 different boats that really would meet your cruising goals.

[anotherT34C]

Hmmm, I wonder if it might be a good idea to take in some actual data (from users) on this site? Like say...

Make/Model/year
asking price
purchase price (and date)
condition comments (one or two lines only)

I had a similarly compiled spreadsheet before my last purchse (from an ownersgroup compiled from broker data) and it was pretty darn helpful in letting me figure out what was realistic.

[Tspringer]

Originally Posted by Fishspearit

One important issue that your poll doesn't address is whether you are talking about the boats INITIAL list price, or the price that it's listed at when it finally sells. There's usually a big difference between the two.

EXACTLY.


The boat we just bought, the final selling price was only $2K off the asking price. But, the original list price was $35K+ more. Given the boats condition and what similar boats of the same make have sold for I think we did ok.

Just like with homes, when a good boat has its price cut to where it represents a truly excellent value, it sells quickly.

What I know for sure is that there is no way I could afford a similar new boat!


Terry

[Therapy]

Originally Posted by anotherT34C

Hmmm, I wonder if it might be a good idea to take in some actual data (from users) on this site? Like say...

Make/Model/year
asking price
purchase price (and date)
condition comments (one or two lines only)

Several have tried asking these numbers in different ways.

No-go.

[Catamount]

Originally Posted by Fishspearit

The only real solution is to be able to asess the value of a boat yourself or with a friend, and base your offer on that. The asking price is in a sense irrelevant to the buyer, other than as a way to decide which boats to spend your time looking at.

Exactly!


FWIW, here's my story: The boat I bought was listed for $12K, with it noted that the seller was "walking away from sailing." I offered $8K site unseen, contingent on my personal inspection, a survey, and sea trial. Broker said seller wanted to split the difference at $10K, but confided that the seller would probably come down to my price "on survey issues." I stuck to my $8K offer but said the survey would be a make-or-break situation, not a point for further price negotiation. Seller accepted. When we tried to pin my surveyor down on his opinion of the boat's value, he said he thought the seller's initial asking price was too low, and if they had started higher, the boat probably would have sold for as much as twice what I was paying for it.