Aspiring Cruiser Seeks Input on his "Plan"

[Cadence]

It is also possible to source a boat from a boatyard. Stop by or call some up asking if they have any boats which are way behind on storage payments. These can often be had for pennies on the dollar

If one went that route, make damn sure you could get clear title. It could be a can of worms, eg. heirs property not probated.

[toms-gonesailin]

Originally Posted by MJH

Sounds like a workable plan on paper. Boat looks good from the ad but you are wise to check it out for yourself...photos and paint cover a multitude of sins. Get a good surveyor.

I ran the ratios and all look OK to me except the CAPSIZE ratio could be a bit lower and being of a lighter DISP/LWL means she will be lively...more of a coastal boat I would think.

Boat maintenance during a New England winter would not be my first choice but I'm sure others have done so...it would be interesting to hear from those who have...but at least your monthly slip cost should be cheaper than being in the water.

Good Luck,

~ ~ _/) ~ ~ MJH

Thanks MJH - Yeah she's definitely a little bit on the lighter side from a displacement perspective. From what I've read she's well balanced and sails easily. Agree on paper it leans to more of coastal boat than a true heavy displacement boat. Definitely worth a second look if we're thinking about doing an ocean crossing. Thanks for pointing that out.

Will definitely get a survey if we move forward with an offer.

[toms-gonesailin]

Originally Posted by Cadence

I can't help my self. After reading a whole bunch of dreamers, it sounds like you have all your **** in one sock, so to speak. Go for it, buy in New England and the best of luck.

LOL.. I can't say I'm familiar with that expression or fully understand what it means but thanks for the encouragement.

[Mike Banks]

My only advice is to buy the smallest vessel in which you can sail with comfort. If one person becomes injured in bad conditions--the other has to manage a larger vessel with heavier equipment.

Big boats cost big bucks. Something everyone should know..yet such an obvious truth escapes most of us until MUCH later--

One of my friends had a 29 foot monohull. He had sailed FAR more miles in it than had I in the same time, and seen far more interesting places because he drew the same depth as did I, and his marina berthing cost him much less, and having less width and smaller sails, could get into safer cyclone holes if he needed to.

While no one wants to get caught in a hurricane or cyclone as we call them here, a shallow draught means one can get into a smaller place.

The biggest mistake is to provide for family and guests on a cruising vessel for two permanents. Those berths (and ensuite on mine) are hardly ever in use--but they are handy for storage on an ocean voyage--but it is a heavy price to pay in extra maintenance and replacements.

I would go for about thirty five feet give or take a few--a forty footer costs more than TWICE as much to maintain and run than does a thirty footer.

I owned a forty-two foot trimaran--loved it--plenty of room, but we could have spent a lot less on a smaller monohull vessel with lighter tackle. She was just too big--but she sure was comfortable and comparatively quiet in a crappy wind-against-tide anchorage--and one can not beat sitting out a tide in such conditions on a sandy beach--try doing THAT in a monohull.

[PAlter]

Dear Tom's gone sailing (let's hope so!!!)

Your plan sounds very well thought out and very doable. I like that Nordic 40 special addition and these were well designed and well built boats.

Check out this review

https://www.cruisingworld.com/sailbo...le-bellingham/

Also, if you get to Sag Harbor to check this boat that is listed with Bruce Tait Yacht Broker, I spend weekend in Sag Harbor and would be interested to meet up and talk boats and cruising. I have had a LeComte NE 38 for the past 21 years and keep it in Sag Harbor and have done extensive cruising all along the New England Coast. I agree with your strategy that this would be a great area to increase your sailing experience and there are numerous different conditions that you could encounter anywhere from Sag Harbor to Maine and all great places in between to cruise, learn the boat, learn to rely on each other and figure out what works for the two of you.

That Nordic 40 special addition would be a very nice first boat and one that could take you to many cruising destinations safely and swiftly so if you decie to check it out, let me know, and I hope it all goes well. There is also an excellent survey in Sag Harbor named Derrick Galen, (mobile is 917 862-6593 or email is derrickgalen@gmail.com)

Follow your heart, pursue your dream and hold fast to your vision.

Best wishes,

Paul

[toms-gonesailin]

Originally Posted by Mike Banks

My only advice is to buy the smallest vessel in which you can sail with comfort. If one person becomes injured in bad conditions--the other has to manage a larger vessel with heavier equipment.

Big boats cost big bucks. Something everyone should know..yet such an obvious truth escapes most of us until MUCH later--

One of my friends had a 29 foot monohull. He had sailed FAR more miles in it than had I in the same time, and seen far more interesting places because he drew the same depth as did I, and his marina berthing cost him much less, and having less width and smaller sails, could get into safer cyclone holes if he needed to.

While no one wants to get caught in a hurricane or cyclone as we call them here, a shallow draught means one can get into a smaller place.

The biggest mistake is to provide for family and guests on a cruising vessel for two permanents. Those berths (and ensuite on mine) are hardly ever in use--but they are handy for storage on an ocean voyage--but it is a heavy price to pay in extra maintenance and replacements.

I would go for about thirty five feet give or take a few--a forty footer costs more than TWICE as much to maintain and run than does a thirty footer.

I owned a forty-two foot trimaran--loved it--plenty of room, but we could have spent a lot less on a smaller monohull vessel with lighter tackle. She was just too big--but she sure was comfortable and comparatively quiet in a crappy wind-against-tide anchorage--and one can not beat sitting out a tide in such conditions on a sandy beach--try doing THAT in a monohull.

Thanks for sharing Mike! The right size is something that I've gone back and forth on MANY times and really appreciate your perspective on and like everything in boating have read an equal number of arguments saying buy the biggest boat you can afford

But I think you're right in cautioning against paying the extra price to be able to provide for family ands guest that rarely materialize.

My big thing if we're considering using it as an eventual live aboard is having standing headroom. I have seen a few 32-36 foot boats with 6'2 head room but it's rare.

I'll definitely take your words to heart. Thanks again for sharing.

[toms-gonesailin]

Originally Posted by PAlter

Dear Tom's gone sailing (let's hope so!!!)

Your plan sounds very well thought out and very doable. I like that Nordic 40 special addition and these were well designed and well built boats.

Check out this review

https://www.cruisingworld.com/sailbo...le-bellingham/

Also, if you get to Sag Harbor to check this boat that is listed with Bruce Tait Yacht Broker, I spend weekend in Sag Harbor and would be interested to meet up and talk boats and cruising. I have had a LeComte NE 38 for the past 21 years and keep it in Sag Harbor and have done extensive cruising all along the New England Coast. I agree with your strategy that this would be a great area to increase your sailing experience and there are numerous different conditions that you could encounter anywhere from Sag Harbor to Maine and all great places in between to cruise, learn the boat, learn to rely on each other and figure out what works for the two of you.

That Nordic 40 special addition would be a very nice first boat and one that could take you to many cruising destinations safely and swiftly so if you decie to check it out, let me know, and I hope it all goes well. There is also an excellent survey in Sag Harbor named Derrick Galen, (mobile is 917 862-6593 or email is derrickgalen@gmail.com)

Follow your heart, pursue your dream and hold fast to your vision.

Best wishes,

Paul

Thank you so much Paul for your kind words and generous offer. I will definitely take you up on that. Would be great to talk to someone who knows the area. I'll drop you a PM to exchange details.

[Mike6040]

The North 40 has a lot of the equipment you will need for an Ocean Passage as well as adequate tankage. Does not appear to need to much 'refit'

Mike

[toms-gonesailin]

Originally Posted by Mike6040

The North 40 has a lot of the equipment you will need for an Ocean Passage as well as adequate tankage. Does not appear to need to much 'refit'

Mike

Thanks Mike! Any thoughts on disp/len ratio? 234.09 seems like (from what i've read) on the lower side for ocean crossings.

Also agree hoping in won't need much in the way of refit. I've been told the systems might be a little dated. Haven't had a chance to see it in person yet.

[sailorboy1]

The part of the "plan" I question is that your boat choices and budget for them don't appear to match. The other item I note is that you have apparently fallen into the standard wannabe trap of what boat designs are acceptable and because of that you are disregarding a LOT of great boat choices.

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by mvweebles

Does anyone have feedback on disparate electrical systems 220v/50hz (much of EUR) vs 120v 60hz (US)? How much hassle is there in buying a EUR boat with 220v but cruising primarily in North America (or vice versa)? Would think conversion would be impractical, even on a relatively small system such as an older 40-foot boat. Thoughts?

We carry a good transformer to change shore power to our boat's native power. It works for 220v-110v as well as the opposite 110v-220v, and other variations. Our boat remains on it's original voltage regardless of the shore power voltage supplied.

Two issues. You cannot buy local power tools to run on-board. (we used an inverter for the odd items we acquired which needed their own voltage) or bought them from home. For example, our coffee grinder (110v) failed in NZ, (land of 230v). We got Starbucks to ship in a 110v grinder from the US.

And, there may be (although we never encountered this) some appliances which cannot tolerate the change in Herz from 50hz to 60hz or vice versa)

[chuckr]

Agree with Sailorboy1 -- when we started looking so many years ago I lived in Conn. Did all the research all the looking and all the talking with folks. Then met Ted Novakowski of SoundYachts -and he invited me onto a boat in his yard - took about 15secs to show ignorant I was - Ted was patient and spent a lot of time teaching me. Eventually boat a brand new Jeanneau DS40 from him in 2003 (lots of discounts for shows ect) - best choice ever - You may think oh no no production boat but we have sailed across the Atlantic (no ARC - we do things on our own) - a circum nav of the Black Sea - only boat I know that has done it as most don't go to Russia, and sailing almost all the Med I would not have another boat. She is strong fast and a great sailing boat. OH and we have lived on her for 12 years now.


SoulMates, my boat, is now 16 years old and while we keep her great shape she is like any French Mistress is a bit expensive. Your buying a 30 year old boat it may require more for updating her than spending more on the front end and getting a newer boat. And doing the work in the northeast in the winter is something to really consider.


Sailing NE is ok but once it gets cold it is really uncomfortable so assume you will park it and move ashore or get a big heater.


Why not the Bahamas? We learned so much sailing the Bahamas from weather, to reading water, to planning for anchorages for weather, to provisioning, to electrical needs to water needs and the list just continues. It really set us up for what we are doing now.


I could continue but will stop here. as for our costs check this
http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...ta-213259.html

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by toms-gonesailin

Thanks MJH - Yeah she's definitely a little bit on the lighter side from a displacement perspective. From what I've read she's well balanced and sails easily. Agree on paper it leans to more of coastal boat than a true heavy displacement boat. Definitely worth a second look if we're thinking about doing an ocean crossing. Thanks for pointing that out.

Will definitely get a survey if we move forward with an offer.

There is NOTHING wrong with a moderate displacement vessel. Heavy displacement buys you nothing offshore, even in heavy weather, in my opinion. Lively is good, better then plunging into every second wave. If your displ/len is over 180, that is not too light.

About your plan:

• I think your refit budget is too low. You are looking at a inexpensive boat and only $20k refit budget, I think you'll double that, at least.
• You two need more non-structured sailing experience to better prepare you for this cruising life. So, while refitting, don't take the boat out of service. Keep it, if at all possible, in sailing trim, sail it every week, in whatever conditions you have that day. This is the best insurance that your cruising will be as you expect it, not a sad shock. Classes don't count.

[toms-gonesailin]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

The part of the "plan" I question is that your boat choices and budget for them don't appear to match. The other item I note is that you have apparently fallen into the standard wannabe trap of what boat designs are acceptable and because of that you are disregarding a LOT of great boat choices.

Thanks Sailor boy, - Agree that most of the boats I've shortlisted as you point out are realistically outside of my budget. Probably more someday boats.

In regards to falling into the 'standard wannabe trap' you're probably right that there are a lot of great production boats that I haven't considered closely because the number of possibilities becomes so overwhelming you have to start drawing arbitrary lines somewhere.

Without a lot of experience to rely on, I've primarily used what information i've found available in books, magazines and on the web, spent of hours digging through forums, listings and sailboat data to try put together a profile of a boat that makes sense for me.

I think the biggest challenge as a newcomer is that faced by such a broad range of opinions on what makes a great boat, we tend to huddle closer to whatever thin thread of consensus we can find.

We also tend to probably over rely on sites like Bluewaterboats.org and Mahina Expeditions - Selecting A Boat for Offshore Cruising as a sources of authority.

I guess my point is that as someone who potentially about to make one of the larger if not largest purchases of their life, I am much less inclined to seriously consider boats that are anything but what I perceive to be the 'safest bets'. And I don't just mean heavy and slow. Rate of depreciation is a big consideration if I'm thinking of this as a 2-5 year plan.

But hey that's been my experience. Would be great to hear from other people about how they've approached identifying their first boat.

Many thanks,

[toms-gonesailin]

Originally Posted by chuckr

Agree with Sailorboy1 -- when we started looking so many years ago I lived in Conn. Did all the research all the looking and all the talking with folks. Then met Ted Novakowski of SoundYachts -and he invited me onto a boat in his yard - took about 15secs to show ignorant I was - Ted was patient and spent a lot of time teaching me. Eventually boat a brand new Jeanneau DS40 from him in 2003 (lots of discounts for shows ect) - best choice ever - You may think oh no no production boat but we have sailed across the Atlantic (no ARC - we do things on our own) - a circum nav of the Black Sea - only boat I know that has done it as most don't go to Russia, and sailing almost all the Med I would not have another boat. She is strong fast and a great sailing boat. OH and we have lived on her for 12 years now.


SoulMates, my boat, is now 16 years old and while we keep her great shape she is like any French Mistress is a bit expensive. Your buying a 30 year old boat it may require more for updating her than spending more on the front end and getting a newer boat. And doing the work in the northeast in the winter is something to really consider.


Sailing NE is ok but once it gets cold it is really uncomfortable so assume you will park it and move ashore or get a big heater.


Why not the Bahamas? We learned so much sailing the Bahamas from weather, to reading water, to planning for anchorages for weather, to provisioning, to electrical needs to water needs and the list just continues. It really set us up for what we are doing now.


I could continue but will stop here. as for our costs check this
http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...ta-213259.html

Thanks Chuck. Appreciate that perspective. There's obviously a deeper discussion here re new production boat vs "classic plastic" and I'm sure there are many cheaper new production boats that would also fulfill our criteria as well.

As I mentioned in response to Sailorboy, it really boils down to inexperience and probably being more conservative. I feel like those of us who are more risk adverse are going to lean towards boats that are better known from crossing oceans. I'm not saying that thinking is right unfortunately as prospective cruiser

I have to try and trust what shred of consensus I can find.

As for why the north east, I have a place to stay there. It means we can spend out first season out getting to know the boat taking shorter trips before we move onto it. A luxury I know. Not that I wouldn't live in a tent boat yard for a year... Can't wait to get to the Bahamas eventually.