So, He Was Right !

[StuM]

Originally Posted by MicHughV

I don't know how many "cultures" or "language" groups" there are in the world, but it is likely a significant amount..and where they all came from ...is the question of the day...

We've only got two major "language groups" but about 800 languages and even more "ethnic groups" or "cultures" just in one country.


https://www.nationsencyclopedia.com/...IC-GROUPS.html

[JPA Cate]

The NYT published an article on this, yesterday: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/08/s...-ancestry.html

Whoever supplied them with the maps with arrows didn't take into account the prevailing winds and current, or at least, that was my impression.

However, since most stone age cultures didn't leave behind easy means of dating them, I think it's very interesting that we can post date some things via DNA exploration.

And, as a purely speculative opinion, I think humanity has traveled around a whole lot more than any anthropologists or archaeologists have been able to document... It just seems there have been/are always a few wandering souls.

It's been a long time since I read this about Tikopia where the farthest west Polynesian colony is, but theirs is a pretty interesting history. It is a small volcanic island, the easternmost of the Solomon Islands. The crater lake there is the people's fresh water source. [It was breached in a cyclone, and the Australian gov't helped repair the breach.] At one time, the chief/king* decided that the pigs were eating more food than they were providing, so they killed them all. [This from Jared Diamond's Collapse.] So that there would be enough for the people. But, when the people exceeded the food supply, several young men were sent out by boat, to either find a new island, or perish in the attempt....and this is in my lifetime. [from cruisers] And, pigs have been re-introduced. [via ham radio]

Ann

*In Polynesia and in Vanuatu, it has seemed to me that the term "chief" is used to describe people who had as much control over others as their "king" counterparts in Europe, and that calling both of them the "head man" would be more accurate, as long as we can agree on the "king" powers.

[MicHughV]

this gets into the realm of...what kind of people...humanoids, as we know people???....people from outer space ??...ape humans ??...stick people...??...yellow people...brown people...black people...and gulp...white people...and what about all the "deities" that abound in every part of the world......spirits....ghosts....the underworld...lost city of Atlantis....ad infinitum....

to my way of thinking...we simply don't know....we can theorize until the cows come home, but we simply don't know...

we know little slivers of stuff here and there...but generally speaking, it's really all one persons opinion.....an educated "guess" at best....open to interpretation, etc, etc

y'know....for the longest time, people thought our planet was flat...to think otherwise was heresy...but that is what people " thought" at one time, "thought" and " believed"

you'd have to provide some pretty convincing evidence to get me to believe in much of anything...nothing short of time travel to convince an old curmudgeon like me...

our planet is less than a microbe speck in the general universe....earth is infinitesimally small and insignificant compared to other planets, etc....and we, people are even smaller....to think we know much of anything ???...

nah, we don't !!

[OloteleMtn]

[QUOTE=JPA Cate; And, pigs have been re-introduced. [via ham radio]

Ann


That is a neat trick! Is this the first example of teleportation? (Or should it be called "teleporkation")

[El Pinguino]

I'll see your Clovis and raise you a Monte Verde....
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monte_Verde
and throw in a Pilauco Bajo for good measure...

[Jim Cate]

[QUOTE=OloteleMtn;3182336]

Originally Posted by JPA Cate; And, pigs have been re-introduced. [via ham radio

Ann


That is a neat trick! Is this the first example of teleportation? (Or should it be called "teleporkation")

Actually, I suspect that a new technology was used. It is called a "boat", and is usually some form of hollow floating structure with some form of propulsion to move it through the water. Many such are large enough to carry stuff inside the structure. This stuff is called "cargo" and can include live animals such as pigs, cows or human beings.

Use of this technology is spreading around the world, and I suspect that it was in use in Tikopia rather than teleporktation or other traditional means.

Jim

[OloteleMtn]

[QUOTE=Jim Cate;3182356]

Originally Posted by OloteleMtn

Actually, I suspect that a new technology was used. It is called a "boat", and is usually some form of hollow floating structure with some form of propulsion to move it through the water.
Jim

My goodness, what will they come up with next! Though i did hear of a rumor of something called an "engine" which causes many people to say loud imprecations.....

[MicHughV]

dang....I thought all a boat was....bring on another thousand....now I read you can actually put stuff in there.. not sure where I would fit a cow on mine, but I'll take a look....

[requiem]

Originally Posted by MicHughV

y'know....for the longest time, people thought our planet was flat...to think otherwise was heresy...but that is what people " thought" at one time, "thought" and " believed"

Oh dear. Washington Irving has much to answer for.

[RaymondR]

Heyedale authored a book about Easter Island titled Aku Aku in which he hypothesized that it was the meeting place of the polynesian and south american peoples. Interesting read.

[jimbunyard]

Originally Posted by MicHughV

this gets into the realm of...what kind of people...humanoids, as we know people???....people from outer space ??...ape humans ??...stick people...??...yellow people...brown people...black people...and gulp...white people...and what about all the "deities" that abound in every part of the world......spirits....ghosts....the underworld...lost city of Atlantis....ad infinitum....

to my way of thinking...we simply don't know....we can theorize until the cows come home, but we simply don't know...

we know little slivers of stuff here and there...but generally speaking, it's really all one persons opinion.....an educated "guess" at best....open to interpretation, etc, etc

y'know....for the longest time, people thought our planet was flat...to think otherwise was heresy...but that is what people " thought" at one time, "thought" and " believed"

you'd have to provide some pretty convincing evidence to get me to believe in much of anything...nothing short of time travel to convince an old curmudgeon like me...

our planet is less than a microbe speck in the general universe....earth is infinitesimally small and insignificant compared to other planets, etc....and we, people are even smaller....to think we know much of anything ???...

nah, we don't !!

Well, we 'know' one thing; your opinion on this, unless taken so generally as to be virtually meaningless, just can't be taken seriously.

First off, the more one 'knows', the more one realizes one doesn't 'know'; accordingly "much of anything" is just an empty metric.

That 'we' 'know' enough to establish the theories that led to the construction of the infrastructure that led to the ability for you to make publicly known your opinion belies the validity of the opinion; those that actually do know many significant things realize by the very nature of that fact how much there is to know, and indeed how much cannot be known. It seem slightly paradoxical, but on reflection it's isn't at all; one logically follows the other.

At this time, there is only one "kind of people" on earth, Homo sapiens sapiens (though some would argue for a second subspecies, tenatively classified as either Homo trumpsterien or perhaps Homo wannabetinpotdictatorien) Until relatively recently there were three or four others, but, evidently through a combination of interbreeding and conflict, only we remain.

This 'interbreeding' of course opens the question "what defines a species?", and ultimately "what's the use of such a designation?", but whole books have been written on those subjects, so let's just say the designation is sometimes somewhat arbitrary and its usage is a compromise to avoid even more confusion and save time, among other things.

As for "y'know...for the longest time, people thought our planet was flat...", no, I don't know that. I don't think many people thought about it then, and I dont think many people do now. It is well known that people who did think about it have known that it wasn't flat for at least 2400 years, meaning that they were the first one's who wrote it down (of which we have a record). Almost certainly that knowledge was available, and probably recognized, by some, if not many, by thousands of years earlier. Human powers of observation, deduction and inference are not recent developments. In fact, given recent civilizational and technological 'developments', it would be interesting, though difficult, to compare the strength of those powers, 'modern' man against pre-literate. Perhaps your time-travel machine could be of assistance...

Regarding Heyerdahl's being 'right', well, science has become much more sophisticated since 1947, and the scientific evidence has accumulated. And it all points to Polynesia being settled from the west by navigators originating in what is now called Taiwan. This evidence includes sources archeaological, biological, genetic, chronological and others.

That's not to say that there wasn't contact from the west coast of the America's; the study referenced even says that it is unclear when the mixing of the gene pool on the furthest eastern Polynesion islands occured. What was clear though, was that most of the genetic origin was Polynesian, not Native American.

Another thing that is certain; if the Native Americans made it to the islands on their own boats, they didn't sail them back. Since their origins and life style were adapted to mainland life, it's unclear how they would be able to survive on a desolate mid-Pacific island, whereas the Polynesians had lived that lifestyle for centuries, if not millenia. That alone would seem to me to be enough to indicate that the Polynesian's settlements absorbed whatever Americans made it west, rather than the opposite.

And one final thing we 'know'. The earth is not "infinitesimally small and insignificant compared to other planets, etc....".

It has a finite size, larger than some planets and smaller than others. We even 'know' that the universe is big, some would say 'really big'.

I'd say it's almost incomprehensibly big, but let's try to comprehend it with an example using everyday things.


Imagine the sun is a tea saucer 5 inches in diameter.

To scale then, the earth is a tiny bearing 1/16 of an inch in diameter, 45 feet away.

At the same scale, the nearest star is more than 20,000 miles away.


In reality, the nearest star is about 4 light years away.

The universe is postulated to be about 90 billion light years across.


"...and we, people are even smaller....to think we know much of anything????...

nah, we don't !!" is simply a false premise.

[StuM]

Originally Posted by El Pinguino

I'll see your Clovis and raise you a Monte Verde....
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monte_Verde
and throw in a Pilauco Bajo for good measure...

Thank you, I've learnt something new today!

[StuM]

Originally Posted by jimbunyard

And one final thing we 'know'. The earth is not "infinitesimally small and insignificant compared to other planets, etc....".

It has a finite size, larger than some planets and smaller than others. We even 'know' that the universe is big, some would say 'really big'.

I'd say it's almost incomprehensibly big, but let's try to comprehend it with an example using everyday things.

"Space, is big. Really big. You just won't believe how vastly, hugely, mindbogglingly big it is. I mean, you may think it's a long way down the road to the chemist, but that's just peanuts to space."

[RaymondR]

Originally Posted by StuM

"Space, is big. Really big. You just won't believe how vastly, hugely, mindbogglingly big it is. I mean, you may think it's a long way down the road to the chemist, but that's just peanuts to space."

At 186,000 miles per second 4 light years is definitely more than I would want to walk.

In Aku Aku Heyerdahl claims to have gathered legends of the elders on Easter Island which claimed that there had been two groups of people on the island; the long ears who were the stone working folks and the short ears who the long ears put to work on the statues. The story went that the short ears rebelled and drove the long ears to one end of the island where a final battle took place during all the long ears were killed. Heyerdahl undertook some excavations which tended to support the legends.

[OloteleMtn]

There are oral stories in Hawaii and among native tribes in central coastal California that speak of the rainbow bridge by which travel was accomplished between the 2 areas prior to western contact.